CAD CAM EDM DRO - Yahoo Group Archive

Re: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] Report from Westec

Posted by Mike Gann
on 2001-04-04 14:01:45 UTC
Andew -

Interesting stuff, thanks for posting.

Mike

Andrew Werby wrote:
>
> Report from Westec
>
> I spent most of last week at Westec, the big tool show held every spring in
> LA, sponsored by the Society of Manufacturing Engineers <www.sme.org>. It
> took up three giant rooms at the Convention Center with manufacturers and
> resellers of all sorts of manual and CNC machine tools, CAM software,
> scanners and metrology equipment, water-jet and laser cutting rigs,
> benders, EDM machines, marking devices, cutting tools and abrasives- in
> short, anything that deals with parts manufacturing in one way or another.
>
> Each room took a day to see, at least at the pace I was going. If one
> refused to be fascinated by anything, never stayed for a demo, and
> invariably rushed by instead of listening to a salesman's spiel, it would
> be possible to see it all in a day, I suppose, but it wouldn't be as much
> fun by a long shot. I lingered around the things I found most interesting,
> of course, and doubtless sped by a lot of things others would stare at
> longer, but there was plenty to keep me going for the whole three days.
>
> Interesting examples of CNC mill design abounded: A bridge-type mill with a
> x travel of 196 inches, y of 122 inches, and 47 inches of z ("less than a
> million dollars" from www.correausa.com); a high-speed VMC in operation,
> spewing inch-high blue chips like popcorn, a 5-axis mill-head with smooth
> ball-joint motion within a hemispherical envelope, a mill with an arm
> moving horizontally and in and out, holding a beam moving up and down in
> its "fist", working on a piece of metal that stays still
> (www.ops-gmbh.com).
>
> All the big mill manufacturers were there: Bridgeport (they even had a
> "Coke Classic" reissue of their old standby manual mill, but painted
> black), Cincinatti, Fadal (showing off their big fat internally-chilled
> ballscrews) Mori-Seiki, Milltronics, Okuma, Mazak, and Haas
> <www.HaasCNC.com>. I guess I relate to small mills better, but I liked the
> Haas Mini-mill - it seemed very competitively priced at $30k, having
> travels of 16" x 12" x 10" a 6000 rpm spindle, enclosure, and a 10-tool
> changer. By adding options, you can get up to a Super Mini-mill for $50k
> with a 15,000 rpm spindle, better toolchanger, and faster control, for
> high-speed machining and 1200 ipm rapids. Subtract options and money and
> they'd sell you a "Toolroom mill" for $20k that had a 30" x travel, lacked
> the toolchanger and enclosure, and came with a slower spindle and
> handwheels as well as servos. MHO/Millright had a nice little mill too,
> built on the bridge plan, with a 12-tool changer. And Servo, as well as
> their larger models, had a small, fast, tight little mill for $17k, but the
> Z-height was really low at 3.5".
>
> There were smaller mills there too- MaxNC <www.maxnc.com> were showing the
> closed-loop stepper driven MaxNC15 CL2 ($3206), and Roland Digital
> <www.rolanddga.com>, demonstrating their new MDX-500 servo-controlled
> machine ($21k) which has good precision but a rather low z-height, like
> most of their machines. The representative was talking about a new
> laser-scanner they'd just introduced from Japan, where Roland is based,
> which would scan objects cylindrically using a turntable, but it wasn't on
> view there at the show. The Graphitech <www.graphitech.com> folks, (who
> make Cimagrafi) had a laser-scanner in operation digitizing relief objects.
> This consisted of a laser head on an Align-right router base, which can be
> converted back to a router by substituting a Porter-Cable head for the
> laser- I'm not sure how much recalibrating it takes to put it back on,
> though.
>
> Most of the emphasis at this show was on Coordinate Measuring Machines,
> rather than scanners, although one scanner maker, Capture 3d
> <www.capture3d.com> was demonstrating how it made a test rocket-sled for
> NASA with its dual-optical machine, which worked by projecting black bars
> on the surface, then calculating 3d coordinates from the distortion of the
> bars. Renishaw <www.renishaw.com> and Faro <www.faro.com> seemed to have
> the biggest presence there, Faro selling large arm-like devices that
> operate by hand, while Renishaw had the "Cyclone", which works more
> automatically. One fellow there from High-Res Inc <www.Reverse-it.com> had
> developed software plug-ins for programs like Pro-E, Solidworks, and
> MasterCam to support digitizing probes directly (including the Microscribe,
> at the low end plus Renishaw and Faro). Another company, Helmel Engineering
> <www.helmel.com>, had a stand-alone software product called Geomet for
> recognizing features on physical parts, and constructing solid geometry in
> the computer- the rep there said he could get me a discount on a Renishaw
> probe, but the coolest ones, with swiveling heads, cost $45k (although they
> did have devices as low as $2.5k.) Delcam of the UK <www.delcam.com> ,
> makers of MillWizard, Powermill, and ArtCam, also had a product in this
> category called CopyCad, but it, like the rest, seemed fairly tedious to
> use, since one has to reconstruct a part feature by feature, then knit them
> all together with surface patches.
>
> There weren't many CAD systems represented; Solidworks <www.solidworks.com>
> had the place pretty much to itself. I got a demo of it, and it was
> impressive. They had a Nordic-Trak machine (or its generic equivalent) as
> an example part: when you pulled the handles, the footpedals would move.
> The demo, conducted by a major reseller Hawk Ridge systems
> <www.hawkridgesys.com> consisted of rebuilding the exercise machine's front
> panel. I tried to throw the salesman for a loop by asking him to trim the
> solid shell he created with a random wavy surface (it's hard to tell what a
> program will really do if one lets a salesman stick to a canned
> demonstration he's done a hundred times or more) but this was no problem.
> The program costs $4k, but I could see it making sense for someone who had
> to design machine parts on a regular basis. Unfortunately, training- vital
> for a program this complex- cost $1200 per day.
>
> Many competing high-end CAM systems were clustered in the same general
> area, and I got demos one after another, so now I'm frankly having trouble
> sorting them out in my mind. Actually, most of the programs at the high end
> were fairly similar, using the same Parasolid kernel, and very similar
> parts- with pockets, islands, fillets, and drilled holes - were used in the
> demonstrations.
>
> Mastercam <www.mastercam.com> seemed like a very nice program, and it did
> some things I'd never seen before, like "morphing" toolpaths, which start
> out, in the example, contouring a rectangular pocket, then as they spiral
> inwards clearing the pocket changing the contour incrementally to mill
> around a triangular island. The program was optimized for high-speed
> machining, so interior clearing paths were rounded slightly in the corners,
> and would loop around outside corners so as not to lose velocity.
>
> At the Surfcam <www.surfware.com> booth, a guy named Jon Kammerer
> <www.jonkammererguitars.com> was picking on his new patented guitar, which
> had been milled in maple using Surfcam with all the sound-box's right
> angles and flat surfaces replaced by smooth curves. He claims it's just as
> loud as a traditional acoustic guitar- it was hard to tell about that at
> the show, with all the noise from machinery, but it was definitely more
> comfortable to hold. The software seemed capable, but it was hard to tell
> what set it apart from the rest, except perhaps that it had the fastest
> simulation. The z-level contour roughing for constant climb milling is a
> nice feature. It costs $15k with the solid modeling option, and $18k if you
> want the 5th axis module. Of course, as is common with programs in this
> price-range, one is expected to pay 11% of this price to them every year as
> "maintenance", in order to receive support and possible future upgrades.
>
> GibbsCam <www.gibsCAM.com> had the best simulation- it was like watching a
> color cartoon of the machining operation, in real time, and you could fly
> around the part without freezing the action, just like a video-game.
> Virtual Gibbs is less expensive than Surfcam, at $7500 (plus 10%/yr) for
> milling capabilities up to 5-axis. It's largely wizard-based, with a "hole
> wizard", for instance, that guides one through the steps involved in making
> a hole. This may make it easier to grasp than programs based on icons or
> nested menus, but it might also be annoying if it takes too long to process
> a lot of holes. It optionally comes with a "Solidsurfacer" module that
> writes code for milling NURBS directly, provided one has a controller, like
> Fanuc and Seimens, that supports the requisite g-codes.
>
> EdgeCAM <www.edgecam.com> offered a mold and die package for between
> $8k-$11k, plus 7%/yr. with some advanced features like Constant Cusp
> Finishing But if you wanted the Solids Machining package with that, for
> importing solid geometry the price goes up $12k. I asked, but they said it
> wouldn't find parting lines automatically, which I thought was important in
> a molds package.
>
> As it turned out, though, I only found one company there that made that
> claim: Vero International. <http://www.vero-software.com>. Their
> VISI-series mold design module has been optimized for plastic injection
> molding, with standard ejection pins and other parts included in its
> library. It also uses the Parasolid kernel (they say they pioneered its use
> with surfaces and machining). It comes with a modeling program, rendering
> engine, and high-speed machining, but doesn't support a live 5th axis. It
> costs $14.1k for the mold software with simultaneous 4-axis capablity plus
> the solid modeler; other modules like reverse engineering and 4-axis wire
> EDM would be extra.
>
> Esprit, from DP Technology <www.dptechnology.com>, seemed the one of the
> more economical of the high-end packages, at $5k for the 3-axis version and
> $7k for the 5-axis, although there's probably a yearly fee added. With a
> parasolid kernel and NURBS-based output it seemed able to do at least most
> of the things the other programs could do, and had a few tricks of its own,
> like graphically comparing the simulated product of the machining operation
> with the original CAD model and flagging the differences. It incorporates
> Visual Basic for Applications in its interface, so one can write macros,
> change the toolbars, and generally customize it to ones preferences. In
> fact, they are cleverly taking advantage of this to harness their user-base
> as developers, providing a place on their site for people to sell any
> plug-ins they might make for their own use they feel might be useful to
> others.
>
> One company, One CNC, <www.onecnc.com> broke ranks with the rest on price,
> as well as on the "maintenance issue", for which they deserve some
> commendation. Their $2495 Mill Professional product (that's flat- no yearly
> fee) while it doesn't support more than 3 axes, does machine NURBS
> directly, and imports solids, surfaces, wireframes, and text, using their
> proprietary kernel. They have their own hybrid solids-surfaces modeler, as
> well as a 2 1/d package for half as much as the Pro version. They are
> willing to sell a network-enabled version for the price of 2 seats, which
> is certainly a better deal than buying ten separate licenses. Plus, they
> offer competitive upgrades, in case you already have a CAM system.
>
> There were three rapid prototyping systems on view, which took different
> approaches to the problem of constructing physical objects from CAD data.
> Z-corp <www.zcorp.com> has developed a system that resembles an ink-jet
> printer for 3d. A jet head sprays a section of the model on a bed of starch
> powder with a glue that consolidates it, then drops the bed a millimeter or
> so, rolls out another layer of powder, and repeats the process, quickly
> building up a part. Advantages of this approach are that the powder-bed
> supports outlying portions of the part geometry, so no external support
> structures are required, the removal of which can be a problem. Also, it is
> faster than most other RP systems, although the surface smoothness is not
> as great. Parts made this way are somewhat fragile, but their strength can
> be enhanced by dipping in wax or super-glue. They could also dip them in a
> flexible urethane to create flexible, rubbery parts. Another improvement
> they've introduced since the last time I saw one of these was the ability,
> in the model Z402C, to introduce integral color into the part by using
> colored glue/ink, which they say is controlled by assigning colors in the
> Cad program, much like conventional printing.
>
> Another company, Stratasys, <www.stratasys.com> took a different approach
> to the problem, using Fused Deposition Modeling (FDM) and their Maxum
> machine to deposit ABS thermoplastic in superimposed layers, building up
> forms that were much stronger than other sorts of RP objects. The size
> envelope was also quite large at 600 x 500 x 600mm, and they had some
> sizable engine blocks and manifolds on display done using this technique.
> Most fascinating were the gear assemblies they had produced this way, with
> the whole gear train, axles, enclosure, and all, built simultaneously. When
> the soluble support material was removed, all the gears turned freely and
> transferred motion from one to another.
>
> The best surfaces of any RP process I've seen so far were produced by the
> Solidscape <www.solid-scape.com> PatternMaster machine. This is an
> development of the Sanders ModelMaker, under new corporate ownership, and
> improved in its functionality. Although the build envelope was smaller than
> Stratasys' at 12" x 6" x 8.5", it uses a waxy plastic material that burns
> out easily, making it an excellent choice for producing lost-wax jewelry
> models. They also had a metal mold they'd produced by building up the
> inverse of the pattern and casting- the finish on the cavity was very good.
> The process involves tracing along the vector contours of a part with their
> hard wax, and filling in solid areas using a hollow grid. A soluble-wax
> support structure is built simultaneously as a hollow grid as well, which
> leaves no trace when it's dissolved away. Between each build-up pass, a
> horizontal milling head moves across the part, planing down the
> newly-deposited surface to flat, so any vertical irregularity would not
> accumulate.
>
> There was no shortage of components at the show for people like me who
> dream about building their own CNC equipment, or retrofitting older
> machines. Perhaps most impressive were the linear motor stages being
> offered by various companies, most notably HiWin of San Jose.
> <www.hiwin.com>. Instead of the conventional arrangement where a stage runs
> on a linear guideway propelled by an encoder/motor attached to a ballscrew,
> their new systems use linear motors, which are like motors with the
> armature "unrolled", so instead of having to rotate and transfer rotary
> motion to linear, the motion is directly linear from the start. They also
> figured out a way to incorporate a magnetic linear encoder into a guideway/
> truck system, so position is accurately and directly fed back to the
> controller. Of course, these things aren't exactly cheap, so for the
> "financially challenged" of us they offered a range of solutions, including
> a selection of more conventional ballscrew-based linear slides.
>
> Although I felt they were the stand-out, there were a number of other
> companies offering similar items, like Lintech <www.lintechmotion.com>, and
> INA <www.ina.com> who said they could probably come up with the obscure
> metric fixed and angular-contact bearing sets to fit the surplus ballscrews
> I've been collecting for a router project.
>
> PC-based controls were hot, and a number of different systems were on
> offer, from well-known brands like Centroid <www.centroidcnc.com> and
> Milltronics <www.milltronics.net> to ones I'd never heard of before, like
> Acroloop <www.acroloop.com>, MS-Tech <www.ms-tech,com>, Delta Tau
> <www.deltatau.com>, and Omni-Turn <www.omniturn.com>. For some reason,
> though, they didn't want to compete on price- it seemed like everybody was
> trying to get at least $10k for a controller.
>
> I could go on and on, I suppose (maybe I have already) -especially if I
> knew the differences between the insert-type cutting tools that were common
> as dirt there- but I think I've touched on the things that struck me as
> most interesting. If anyone has questions about areas I may not have
> mentioned, fire away- like I said, everybody notices different things, and
> there was a lot I jsut had to ignore. But altogether, it was a busy three
> days...
>
> Andrew Werby
> www.computersculpture.com
>
> Andrew Werby - United Artworks
> Sculpture, Jewelry, and Other Art Stuff
> http://unitedartworks.com
>
> Welcome to CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO@...,an unmoderated list for the discussion of shop built systems, for CAD, CAM, EDM, and DRO.
>
> Addresses:
> Post message: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO@yahoogroups.com
> Subscribe: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> Unsubscribe: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> List owner: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO-owner@yahoogroups.com, wanliker@...
> Moderator: jmelson@... timg@... [Moderator]
> URL to this page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO
> bill,
> List Manager
>
> FAQ: http://www.ktmarketing.com/faq.html
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Discussion Thread

Andrew Werby 2001-04-04 13:25:15 UTC Report from Westec Mike Gann 2001-04-04 14:01:34 UTC Re: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] Report from Westec Mike Gann 2001-04-04 14:01:45 UTC Re: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] Report from Westec Matt Shaver 2001-04-04 15:06:56 UTC Re: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] Report from Westec Alan Marconett KM6VV 2001-04-04 16:06:55 UTC Re: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] Report from Westec Andrew Werby 2001-04-05 11:24:25 UTC Re: Report from Westec