Connecting Sherline Stepper Motors to CamTronics 3-Axis Controller Board

-----Original Message-----
From: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Friday, September 07, 2001 12:50 AM
To: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] Digest Number 1619


Addresses:
FAQ: http://www.ktmarketing.com/faq.html
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bill,
List Manager


------------------------------------------------------------------------

There are 22 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. Re: US Digital Linear strips/encoders
From: daque@...
2. Re: Motor Mounting Brackets for Bridgeport Conversion
From: "Smoke" <gordonr@...>
3. Re: Re: G320s, New and Improved!
From: Jon Elson <elson@...>
4. Re: Motor Mounting Brackets for Bridgeport Conversion
From: jjh122@...
5. Re: How to select power supply???
From: Jon Elson <elson@...>
6. Re: G320s, New and Improved!
From: mariss92705@...
7. Re: Re: mcafee self destructed
From: JanRwl@...
8. EMC for Taig CNC Mill
From: "Vic Fraenckel" <vfraenc1@...>
9. booting into DOS
From: "Marcus & Eva" <implmex@...>
10. Re: EMC Control Panel
From: "William Scalione" <wscalione@...>
11. Re: How to select power supply???
From: "Weyland" <weyland@...>
12. Re: booting into DOS
From: "Donn Busby" <donn@...>
13. Re: Request for Recommendation for Power Supply
From: "M. SHABBIR" <shabm@...>
14. RE: Simple DRO new idea
From: "M. SHABBIR" <shabm@...>
15. Re: booting into DOS
From: "Marcus & Eva" <implmex@...>
16. VB-DRO
From: "William Scalione" <wscalione@...>
17. Re: EMC Control Panel
From: Jon Elson <elson@...>
18. Re: EMC for Taig CNC Mill
From: Jon Elson <elson@...>
19. Re: Re: G320s, New and Improved!
From: Jon Elson <elson@...>
20. Re: booting into DOS
From: Jon Elson <elson@...>
21. Geckodrive G901 problems!!
From: mariss92705@...
22. Re: How to select power supply???
From: Jon Elson <elson@...>


________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 1
Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2001 23:49:30 -0000
From: daque@...
Subject: Re: US Digital Linear strips/encoders

http://www.usdigital.com/products/disklinear/

--- In CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO@y..., "M. SHABBIR" <shabm@d...> wrote:
> where i can found this?
>
>
>
> shabbir
>
> At 01:55 AM 9/5/01 +0000, you wrote:
> >In email from Clark at US Digital I found out:
> >
> >"We presently have resolutions of 360, 300, 200 LPI and lower that
we
> >can sell and ship to you immediately. The strips are $2 per inch,
> >and the matching HEDS-9200-xxx optical encoder module are $25
each.
> >...
> >Yes. With the 360 LPI strip, you can resolve down to 1/1440th of
an
> >inch if your interface electronics can do the X4 counting."
> >
> >Is 1/1440 close enough for most stuff a home mill would be asked
to
> >do?
> >
> >Dave WC0H
> >
> >PS Clark also wrote:
> >"The new EM1 optical encoder module and the new linear strip
> >resolutions of 250 and 500 LPI offered with that, I am estimating
> >that we are 8 to 10 weeks away on that. We will for the first
> >time be able to offer index strips with index marks on them as
well.
> >"
> >
> >
> >Addresses:
> >FAQ: http://www.ktmarketing.com/faq.html
> >FILES: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO/files/
> >
> >Post messages: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO@y...
> >Subscribe: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO-subscribe@y...
> >Unsubscribe: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO-unsubscribe@y...
> >List owner: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO-owner@y..., wanliker@a...
> >Moderator: jmelson@a... timg@k... [Moderator]
> >URL to this page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO
> >bill,
> >List Manager
> >
> >
> >
> >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >



________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 2
Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 17:58:45 -0600
From: "Smoke" <gordonr@...>
Subject: Re: Motor Mounting Brackets for Bridgeport Conversion

I'm in the process of casting some aluminum ones for a conversion to my
bridgeport clone.
These will be cast using the lost wax casting process.
At the moment I'm waiting for some ceramic shell material I've got on order
to be delivered.
As soon as it gets here, I should be able to get them cast within a couple
of weeks.

I can send you a sketch of the castings if you like. They should fit on
your machine.
They are designed for ease of motor mounting and adjustment.
If not, let me know and I can easily alter the wax pattern before casting
them if you'd like me to cast some for you.

I'm sure the price will be much less than $700, but you will have to machine
them to fit your machine.

Smoke


----- Original Message -----
From: <jjh122@...>
To: <CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2001 5:37 PM
Subject: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] Motor Mounting Brackets for Bridgeport Conversion


> Hi Everyone, I was just wondering if anyone knows of anybody who
> sells mounting brackets for mounting the stepper motors to the ends
> of the "X" and "Y" tables on a Bridgeport mill. I know that ah-ha
> sells them but I think they are around $700.00 (too much for me) or
> at least somewhere I can get some plans. Thanks; John
>
>
> Addresses:
> FAQ: http://www.ktmarketing.com/faq.html
> FILES: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO/files/
>
> Post messages: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO@yahoogroups.com
> Subscribe: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> Unsubscribe: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> List owner: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO-owner@yahoogroups.com, wanliker@...
> Moderator: jmelson@... timg@... [Moderator]
> URL to this page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO
> bill,
> List Manager
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>



________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 3
Date: Fri, 07 Sep 2001 00:46:53 +0000
From: Jon Elson <elson@...>
Subject: Re: Re: G320s, New and Improved!

machines@... wrote:

> --- In CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO@y..., Jon Elson <elson@p...> wrote:
> > Ah ha! Yes, it seemed like you might have had this problem in some
> > installations. I not only have plain filtering, I also refuse to
> accept
> > any illegal transitions, ie. from 11 to 00 (from 11 to either 01 or
> 10 is
> > legal) and just wait until a legal one shows up.
> >
> Jon
> Is your board on sale yet
> If so what are the specs as regards amps and volts.?
> Also cost per axis drive.

Well, I did a servo amp as a kit about 2 years ago, but it was not really
cost effective, although it is a nice amp.

What I am working on now is an interface/motion control, so there are no
amps
and volts concerned, other than +/- 10 V velocity command signals to
the servo amp of your choice, and +5 V out to power encoders.
The digital I/O was the real tough nut to crack, but I have finally done it,

although it required modification to a number of areas of EMC.

I need to do some more simple work to get all the limit switches decoded
properly and such things, but compared to getting the data to just jump
the gap between RT and Linux, that will be pretty easy. then, i have to
work
on getting it all integrated with a late version of EMC and into the BDI
format.

I am planning on having two versions available, a 3 card set plus
motherboard
to run servo systems, and a single card to run steppers with or without
encoders, plus digital I/O.

What I have now available is on my web page at :
http://pico-systems.com/PPMC.html

There is a link to a price list, too.

Thanks,

Jon



________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 4
Date: Fri, 07 Sep 2001 00:44:00 -0000
From: jjh122@...
Subject: Re: Motor Mounting Brackets for Bridgeport Conversion

--- In CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO@y..., "Smoke" <gordonr@r...> wrote:
> I'm in the process of casting some aluminum ones for a conversion
to my
> bridgeport clone.
> These will be cast using the lost wax casting process.
> At the moment I'm waiting for some ceramic shell material I've got
on order
> to be delivered.
> As soon as it gets here, I should be able to get them cast within a
couple
> of weeks.
>
> I can send you a sketch of the castings if you like. They should
fit on
> your machine.
> They are designed for ease of motor mounting and adjustment.
> If not, let me know and I can easily alter the wax pattern before
casting
> them if you'd like me to cast some for you.
> Smoke, That would be awesome! Keep me posted. John
jjh122@...
> I'm sure the price will be much less than $700, but you will have
to machine
> them to fit your machine.
>
> Smoke
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <jjh122@z...>
> To: <CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO@y...>
> Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2001 5:37 PM
> Subject: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] Motor Mounting Brackets for Bridgeport
Conversion
>
>
> > Hi Everyone, I was just wondering if anyone knows of anybody who
> > sells mounting brackets for mounting the stepper motors to the
ends
> > of the "X" and "Y" tables on a Bridgeport mill. I know that ah-ha
> > sells them but I think they are around $700.00 (too much for me)
or
> > at least somewhere I can get some plans. Thanks; John
> >
> >
> > Addresses:
> > FAQ: http://www.ktmarketing.com/faq.html
> > FILES: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO/files/
> >
> > Post messages: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO@y...
> > Subscribe: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO-subscribe@y...
> > Unsubscribe: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO-unsubscribe@y...
> > List owner: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO-owner@y..., wanliker@a...
> > Moderator: jmelson@a... timg@k... [Moderator]
> > URL to this page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO
> > bill,
> > List Manager
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >



________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 5
Date: Fri, 07 Sep 2001 00:58:03 +0000
From: Jon Elson <elson@...>
Subject: Re: How to select power supply???

Weyland wrote:

> Greetings All,
>
> I was recently able to bet some larger motors for the mill conversion,
> but am somewhat at a loss on how to correctly size a power supply for
them.
>
> Do you choose the power supply first, or the driver boards?

Choose motors first (in general), then choose drivers that can
power the motor properly, then choose power supply to suit the
needs of the driver.

> Do you *add* all the amperages for *each* motor?

No. You need to make some sort of computation based on actual
power draw of the motors. Since almost all new drivers are swtiching type,
current into the driver is much less than current in the motor windings.
The current draw rises as motor speed increases. But, in general,
the drivers will rarely draw current equal to the rating of one winding,
assuming a sufficient DC supply voltage is chosen. Even if this
current is drawn, it will be for short bursts. Unregulated DC supplies
can supply peak power above the rating point for short periods.
Also, a slight dip in DC voltage will not affect the drivers.

>
> (for me adding three motors?)
> And how can I tell at what voltage these are safe to run at?
> 12V or 48V????? Or somewhere in between?

This is mostly determined by the specs of the drivers. Some can
handle no more than 35 V, some can go to 80 or so. The driver
limits winding current to whatever you set it to, so you don't really
need to worry about DC supply voltage versus the motor voltage
rating.

>
> I have *some* schematics available to me,
> but haven't been able to make heads or tails of them.
> Let me know what I should be looking for on them, maybe?

Schematics of what, motors, or drivers? Without comments on them,
a raw schematic may be of little use. You can't tell what voltage or
current it can handle just from the schematic, unless it says so in
words, without looking up the component ratings in databooks.

Jon



________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 6
Date: Fri, 07 Sep 2001 00:57:21 -0000
From: mariss92705@...
Subject: Re: G320s, New and Improved!

Jon,

Good afternoon! The only way illegal transitions can occur are if (1)
the channel A and B lines are shorted together or (2) a non-
quadrature encoder is used such as using the least 2 bits of an
absolute encoder. In either case the error will be caught due to the
ensuing consequences.

You are a very talented and skilled person with an educational
backgroud necessary to design and build a "no holds barred" servo
drive; I too have done that as well. It is on this point I would like
to expand the reply to a more general philosophical perspective.

My first point is experience has shown the last 10% of performance
consumes 90% of the final cost. My second point is a cost-beneft
ratio exists for almost anything one undertakes.

The second point implies the existance of a "sweet point" or value
where performance divided by cost is at a maximum. It takes effort to
find this optimal mix and it is the cause of satisfaction if one
comes close.

Compared to the G320, clearly your servodrive has more features, not
the least of which is tacho feedback. However it would cost between
$500 to $1,000 to the end user when all is said and done. Witness the
price of any mainline industrial servodrive.

There are Volkswagens and there are Ferraris and both are cars. Both
will get you from here to there and both beat walking. My design
efforts have focused on the utilitarian end. Your design is a high
end one and obviously works. With that said I would warmly encourage
you to produce it for sale, there is room for both. It would place me
on a more even footing as well since then I would be able to offer
helpful suggestions on how to improve it:)

Mariss


--- In CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO@y..., Jon Elson <elson@p...> wrote:
.
>
> Ah ha! Yes, it seemed like you might have had this problem in some
> installations. I not only have plain filtering, I also refuse to
accept
> any illegal transitions, ie. from 11 to 00 (from 11 to either 01 or
10 is
> legal) and just wait until a legal one shows up.
>
> Jon



________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 7
Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 21:07:47 EDT
From: JanRwl@...
Subject: Re: Re: mcafee self destructed

In a message dated 06-Sep-01 10:44:55 Central Daylight Time,
thomasm923@... writes:


> My computer came with McAfee installed. I was VERY unhappy with it
> and finally purchased Norton's SystemWorks. I have few complaints so
> far, the AV part of the bundle has worked flawlessly.
>
> Norton gets my vote.
>
> Tom Murray
>

Ditto on all points.
Jan Rowland



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 8
Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 20:25:36 -0400
From: "Vic Fraenckel" <vfraenc1@...>
Subject: EMC for Taig CNC Mill

Is it possible to run the Taig CNC mill using EMC through the Taig supplied
controller?

Vic

________________________________________________________

Victor Fraenckel - The Windman vfraenc1@...
KC2GUI www.windsway.com

Home of the WindReader Electronic Theodolite
Read the WIND




________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 9
Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 18:38:21 -0700
From: "Marcus & Eva" <implmex@...>
Subject: booting into DOS

Hi all:
Can any of you help me with a small boot problem?
I need a Windows 95 machine to boot up into DOS instead of Windows 95.
Do I edit a line in autoexec.bat or command.com? or maybe win.ini?
Any suggestions will be greatly appreciated.
Cheers

Marcus




________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 10
Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 17:48:19 -0500
From: "William Scalione" <wscalione@...>
Subject: Re: EMC Control Panel

Dave

Yes, but you need to build a circuit to allow the
computer to handle 2 keyboards. There is one
in the files section of this group. Just splicing two
keyboard cables together wont work. You could
build a panel with a keyboard attached to it and
connect the wires from the switches in parallel
with the actual keyboard keys. That way you have
only one keyboard connected to the computer.

Bill


> THIS IS GREAT INFORMATION! I WAS PLANNING ON HACKING APART AN OLD
KEYBOARD
> AND SOLDERING MY OWN SWITCHES INTO IT.... HMMMM... COULD THE SAME THING BE
> ACCOMPLISHED BY HACKING AN OLD KEYBOARD CIRCUIT BOARD, AND USING A
KEYBOARD
> 'Y' WITH A GOOD KEYBOARD ON THE OTHER LEAD? (JUST IN CASE I NEED INPUT VIA
A
> KEYBOARD, IN ADDITION TO THE SWITCHES FOR EMC)
> THANKS--- DAVE 'LO-TECH' LANTZ
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: wscalione@... [mailto:wscalione@...]
> Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2001 12:54 PM
> To: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] EMC Control Panel
>
>
> John
>
> Yes I will post some photos and how I did it once I get it
> going. I just got the keyboard emulator 10 minutes ago
> from UPS so I will try that sometime today. Got it from
> http://www.hagstromelectronics.com/modules.html
> I bought the KE-18 module, which allows connecting
> a keyboard and the module at the same time. That is
> essentially 2 keyboards, with your own switches connected
> to the module to emulate key presses. The big problem
> is the switches, The ones that I want to use are high
> dollar (about $12.00 each!). I do not like those cheap
> ones that don't click when you press them. I may stick
> some cheap ones in there for now and continue my search
> for matching the switches that I allready have. If anybody
> sees any switches made by EAO cheap, let me know
>
> Bill
>
>
> > Now that's kul! Can we expect to see some kind of how-to on this in the
> > future? What are you using?
> >
> > John Guenther
> >
>
> >
>
>
> Addresses:
> FAQ: http://www.ktmarketing.com/faq.html
> FILES: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO/files/
>
> Post messages: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO@yahoogroups.com
> Subscribe: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> Unsubscribe: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> List owner: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO-owner@yahoogroups.com, wanliker@...
> Moderator: jmelson@... timg@... [Moderator]
> URL to this page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO
> bill,
> List Manager
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
> Addresses:
> FAQ: http://www.ktmarketing.com/faq.html
> FILES: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO/files/
>
> Post messages: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO@yahoogroups.com
> Subscribe: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> Unsubscribe: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> List owner: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO-owner@yahoogroups.com, wanliker@...
> Moderator: jmelson@... timg@... [Moderator]
> URL to this page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO
> bill,
> List Manager
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>



________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 11
Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 22:21:45 -0400
From: "Weyland" <weyland@...>
Subject: Re: How to select power supply???

Hey Jon~!
Thanks for the help -
Questions interspersed.

From: "Jon Elson" <elson@...>

> > Do you choose the power supply first, or the driver boards?
>
> Choose motors first (in general), then choose drivers that can
> power the motor properly, then choose power supply to suit the
> needs of the driver.

The motors I got were the specs I posted.
So I look for a driver now, huh?
I haven't seen a chopper driver for something with these specs,
but that's part of the problem. ( I don't know the voltage rating of them)

> > Do you *add* all the amperages for *each* motor?
>
> No. You need to make some sort of computation based on actual
> power draw of the motors. Since almost all new drivers are swtiching
type,
> current into the driver is much less than current in the motor windings.
> The current draw rises as motor speed increases. But, in general,
> the drivers will rarely draw current equal to the rating of one winding,
> assuming a sufficient DC supply voltage is chosen. Even if this
> current is drawn, it will be for short bursts. Unregulated DC supplies
> can supply peak power above the rating point for short periods.
> Also, a slight dip in DC voltage will not affect the drivers.

When you say "switching", are you saying that the driver is turning off and
on,
or that it's acting like a relay, and thus not handling the voltage and
current itself?
Sorry, trying to learn.

> > (for me adding three motors?)
> > And how can I tell at what voltage these are safe to run at?
> > 12V or 48V????? Or somewhere in between?
>
> This is mostly determined by the specs of the drivers. Some can
> handle no more than 35 V, some can go to 80 or so. The driver
> limits winding current to whatever you set it to, so you don't really
> need to worry about DC supply voltage versus the motor voltage
> rating.

Sorry, I'm pretty ignorant in the electronics area.
(probably other areas as well)
Are you saying that drivers have an adjustable current setting
so I can tailor it to the motor specs?
The motors are rated at 3.5A uni, and 5.0A bipolar.
So I should look for a driver that is 5A capable (or rated) ?

So, I should look for a power supply that is capable of supplying the
amperage, and just go with a "in the ballpark" voltage?
If the motors are rated at...let's say 5A, and it is possible that all three
motors will be
engaged at the same time (three axis move) wouldn't that draw 15A
theoretically?

> > I have *some* schematics available to me,
> > but haven't been able to make heads or tails of them.
> > Let me know what I should be looking for on them, maybe?
>
> Schematics of what, motors, or drivers? Without comments on them,
> a raw schematic may be of little use. You can't tell what voltage or
> current it can handle just from the schematic, unless it says so in
> words, without looking up the component ratings in databooks.

I think both.
The schematics I got are found here:
http://sisp.net/~sclark/SIGMA%20STEPPER/
The guy that sold them to me posted them.
Being this ignorant, I can figure out *some* of what it's saying,
but not much, and definitely don't see anything about voltage.




________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 12
Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 19:28:05 -0700
From: "Donn Busby" <donn@...>
Subject: Re: booting into DOS

Yeah, you need to edit the msdos.sys file.

Usually have to change the attributes on it to be able to edit it.

At the C: prompt type attrib -r -s -h msdos.sys
Then edit msdos.sys

Change the line bootgui=1 to bootgui=0
Save the file edit

Return the attribs attrib +r +s +h msdos.sys

Should just boot to DOS after that. If you want to go into Windows
afterwards, just type win at the dos prompt.

To return to the original boot process just return the line to bootgui=1.

Donn
donn@...
http://www.bridgecitysystems.com - Computers & Consulting
http://www.cnc-works.com - CNC Crafts, Engraving & Precision Routing

----- Original Message -----
From: "Marcus & Eva" <implmex@...>
To: <CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2001 6:38 PM
Subject: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] booting into DOS


> Hi all:
> Can any of you help me with a small boot problem?
> I need a Windows 95 machine to boot up into DOS instead of Windows 95.
> Do I edit a line in autoexec.bat or command.com? or maybe win.ini?
> Any suggestions will be greatly appreciated.
> Cheers
>
> Marcus
>
>
>
> Addresses:
> FAQ: http://www.ktmarketing.com/faq.html
> FILES: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO/files/
>
> Post messages: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO@yahoogroups.com
> Subscribe: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> Unsubscribe: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> List owner: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO-owner@yahoogroups.com, wanliker@...
> Moderator: jmelson@... timg@... [Moderator]
> URL to this page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO
> bill,
> List Manager
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>



________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 13
Date: Fri, 07 Sep 2001 07:12:51 +0500
From: "M. SHABBIR" <shabm@...>
Subject: Re: Request for Recommendation for Power Supply

HI
WAHT is ur total cost of 3 steppers and 3 axis driver board and power
supply??


shabbir

At 02:21 PM 9/5/01 +0000, you wrote:
>Yes, another newbie question. I am adding CNC capabilities to my
>Sherline Model 2000 mill. Mill hardware is Sherline motors and
>mounts. Steper control circuit is Dan Mauch's 3-axis, 2A driver
>board. Software has not been selected.
>
>I have completed assembly of the driver board, and now I need
>recommendations for an appropriate power supply. I am looking for
>something capable of powering both the mill and a future conversion
>of my Sherline lathe. To assist those who may respond, the Sherline
>motors are 3.2V, 2Amp. Also, I plan to mount a stepper to my rotary
>table and add Dan's 4-axis module.
>
>A secondary question concerning the lathe conversion is, is it
>practical to use the same driver for both the mill and the lathe, or
>should both machines have their own driver circuits and share the
>same power supply? The two machines would not be operated at the same
>time, but I prefer simplicity over trying to save the cost of the
>driver circuit.
>
>Finally, recommendations on software would be appreciated. I already
>own TurboCad Ver. 6 and based on recommendations from users on the
>Sherline list I am leaning heavily towards purchasing CNCPro.
>
>TIA
>
>Dan
>
>
>Addresses:
>FAQ: http://www.ktmarketing.com/faq.html
>FILES: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO/files/
>
>Post messages: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO@yahoogroups.com
>Subscribe: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>Unsubscribe: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>List owner: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO-owner@yahoogroups.com, wanliker@...
>Moderator: jmelson@... timg@... [Moderator]
>URL to this page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO
>bill,
>List Manager
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>



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Message: 14
Date: Fri, 07 Sep 2001 07:08:20 +0500
From: "M. SHABBIR" <shabm@...>
Subject: RE: Simple DRO new idea

DIGITAL READ OUT



At 07:37 AM 9/5/01 -0400, you wrote:
>um.... sorry, but what does 'DRO' stand for?
>---Dave 'the newbie' Lantz
>
> At 10:46 PM 9/3/01 +0000, you wrote:0
>>"M. SHABBIR" wrote:
>>
>>> hi
>>> u can find ring magnet in back of audio speaker.
>>>
>>> shabbir
>>>
>>> At 02:26 PM 9/2/01 -0600, you wrote:
>>> >Scott
>>> >I am working on a very simple dro using a special purpose Hall effect
>sensor
>>> >and a simple up down counter connected to a 8 digit led. It would work
>as
>>> >follows
>>> >a linear magnet strip or a ring magnet with alternating north and south
>>
>>The ring shaped magnet it a speaker has one pole in the center, and one
>pole
>>on the OD (some fold the design, so each face is a pole). This won't work
>>as a magnetic encoder, since the poles don't move when it is rotated.
>>A 2-pole motor with a ring magnet only has 2 poles for one revolution,
>>so that may still not work well for your application. Floppy drive motors
>>from the ones with the motor in the hub usually have more poles, and may
>>have a tach ring that has many poles per rev. These are pretty large
>>diameter, however.
>>
>>Jon
>>
>>
>>Addresses:
>>FAQ: http://www.ktmarketing.com/faq.html
>>FILES: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO/files/
>>
>>Post messages: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO@yahoogroups.com
>>Subscribe: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>>Unsubscribe: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>>List owner: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO-owner@yahoogroups.com, wanliker@...
>>Moderator: jmelson@... timg@... [Moderator]
>>URL to this page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO
>>bill,
>>List Manager
>>
>>
>>
>>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>>
>
>
>Addresses:
>FAQ: http://www.ktmarketing.com/faq.html
>FILES: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO/files/
>
>Post messages: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO@yahoogroups.com
>Subscribe: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>Unsubscribe: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>List owner: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO-owner@yahoogroups.com, wanliker@...
>Moderator: jmelson@... timg@... [Moderator]
>URL to this page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO
>bill,
>List Manager
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>Addresses:
>FAQ: http://www.ktmarketing.com/faq.html
>FILES: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO/files/
>
>Post messages: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO@yahoogroups.com
>Subscribe: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>Unsubscribe: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>List owner: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO-owner@yahoogroups.com, wanliker@...
>Moderator: jmelson@... timg@... [Moderator]
>URL to this page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO
>bill,
>List Manager
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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Message: 15
Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 20:54:22 -0700
From: "Marcus & Eva" <implmex@...>
Subject: Re: booting into DOS

Hi Donn:
Thank you very much for your help.
'Tis much appreciated!
Cheers

Marcus
-----Original Message-----
From: Donn Busby <donn@...>
To: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO@yahoogroups.com <CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Thursday, September 06, 2001 7:26 PM
Subject: Re: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] booting into DOS


>Yeah, you need to edit the msdos.sys file.
>
>Usually have to change the attributes on it to be able to edit it.
>
>At the C: prompt type attrib -r -s -h msdos.sys
>Then edit msdos.sys
>
>Change the line bootgui=1 to bootgui=0
>Save the file edit
>
>Return the attribs attrib +r +s +h msdos.sys
>
>Should just boot to DOS after that. If you want to go into Windows
>afterwards, just type win at the dos prompt.
>
>To return to the original boot process just return the line to bootgui=1.
>
>Donn
>donn@...
>http://www.bridgecitysystems.com - Computers & Consulting
>http://www.cnc-works.com - CNC Crafts, Engraving & Precision Routing
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Marcus & Eva" <implmex@...>
>To: <CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO@yahoogroups.com>
>Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2001 6:38 PM
>Subject: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] booting into DOS
>
>
>> Hi all:
>> Can any of you help me with a small boot problem?
>> I need a Windows 95 machine to boot up into DOS instead of Windows 95.
>> Do I edit a line in autoexec.bat or command.com? or maybe win.ini?
>> Any suggestions will be greatly appreciated.
>> Cheers
>>
>> Marcus
>>
>>
>>
>> Addresses:
>> FAQ: http://www.ktmarketing.com/faq.html
>> FILES: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO/files/
>>
>> Post messages: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO@yahoogroups.com
>> Subscribe: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>> Unsubscribe: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>> List owner: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO-owner@yahoogroups.com, wanliker@...
>> Moderator: jmelson@... timg@... [Moderator]
>> URL to this page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO
>> bill,
>> List Manager
>>
>>
>>
>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>Addresses:
>FAQ: http://www.ktmarketing.com/faq.html
>FILES: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO/files/
>
>Post messages: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO@yahoogroups.com
>Subscribe: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>Unsubscribe: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>List owner: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO-owner@yahoogroups.com, wanliker@...
>Moderator: jmelson@... timg@... [Moderator]
>URL to this page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO
>bill,
>List Manager
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>



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Message: 16
Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 18:18:43 -0500
From: "William Scalione" <wscalione@...>
Subject: VB-DRO

I have just uploaded a new version of the VB-DRO program
that I wrote a long time ago. This is a 4 axis version and was
modified by Paul-Ernest Levesque. Feel free to use it any way
you wish. I don't have the source for it, but the source is in the
original file in the same directory, although it's only 3 axis.
I will try to get the source from Paul and put that there also

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO/files/VB-DRO/

Bill



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Message: 17
Date: Fri, 07 Sep 2001 05:09:32 +0000
From: Jon Elson <elson@...>
Subject: Re: EMC Control Panel

William Scalione wrote:

> Dave
>
> Yes, but you need to build a circuit to allow the
> computer to handle 2 keyboards. There is one
> in the files section of this group. Just splicing two
> keyboard cables together wont work. You could
> build a panel with a keyboard attached to it and
> connect the wires from the switches in parallel
> with the actual keyboard keys. That way you have
> only one keyboard connected to the computer.

You can buy little boxes that do this from some of the
'computer warehouse' flyers. I wouldn't be surprised if the
local computer warehouse store has them, too.

The real problem with all these keyboard hacks is that
the keyboard is only sending keystrokes to EMC when the
'window focus' is on the EMC window. If you set the 'focus'
on another process, like when editing a file, running another
program, etc. then the control panel is no longer connected
to EMC. Maybe this isn't such a big deal, but it seems like
it would be one to me.

Jon



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Message: 18
Date: Fri, 07 Sep 2001 05:12:59 +0000
From: Jon Elson <elson@...>
Subject: Re: EMC for Taig CNC Mill

Vic Fraenckel wrote:

> Is it possible to run the Taig CNC mill using EMC through the Taig
supplied
> controller?

I don't know. I did run a Sherline with a MicroKinetics driver at the NAMES
show with EMC and my parallel port stepper drive interface. Theoretically,
any stepper driver which takes step and direction signals should be able
to be connected to a PC's parallel port and controlled by EMC.

I don't know what the particulars of the Taig controller are, or whether
they use the parallel port.

Jon



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Message: 19
Date: Fri, 07 Sep 2001 05:32:51 +0000
From: Jon Elson <elson@...>
Subject: Re: Re: G320s, New and Improved!

mariss92705@... wrote:

> Jon,
>
> Good afternoon! The only way illegal transitions can occur are if (1)
> the channel A and B lines are shorted together or (2) a non-
> quadrature encoder is used such as using the least 2 bits of an
> absolute encoder. In either case the error will be caught due to the
> ensuing consequences.

Well, I was talking about momentary transitions due to large noise
pulses. I suspect this is what was happening with the installation
troubles in the plasma cutter systems. I noted in my research on
the topic when I started down this path some years ago that EVERY
major encoder counter chip makes a big fuss over the quality of
THEIR proprietary digital filtering of the encoder signals. I took this
to be a sign that illegal transitions and other bad encoder signals are
quite a problem, and the customers must be demanding it. Plain
RC filtering may well be good enough, one would have to record
some of the nasty transients to know for sure.

<embarrasing buttering-up deleted>

> My first point is experience has shown the last 10% of performance
> consumes 90% of the final cost. My second point is a cost-beneft
> ratio exists for almost anything one undertakes.

This is true!

> The second point implies the existance of a "sweet point" or value
> where performance divided by cost is at a maximum. It takes effort to
> find this optimal mix and it is the cause of satisfaction if one
> comes close.
>
> Compared to the G320, clearly your servodrive has more features, not
> the least of which is tacho feedback. However it would cost between
> $500 to $1,000 to the end user when all is said and done. Witness the
> price of any mainline industrial servodrive.

Well, there are a couple of Copley amps in this class (90 V, 10 A) with
tach feedback in the $200 range. Supposedly that is quantity 1!
This is why I stopped further efforts to sell these as complete units.

> There are Volkswagens and there are Ferraris and both are cars. Both
> will get you from here to there and both beat walking. My design
> efforts have focused on the utilitarian end. Your design is a high
> end one and obviously works. With that said I would warmly encourage
> you to produce it for sale, there is room for both. It would place me
> on a more even footing as well since then I would be able to offer
> helpful suggestions on how to improve it:)

No, given that Copley is not the only outfit with low-cost servo amps,
I just can't see any reason to try to get into this market. As for the
higher end, there are a BUNCH of companies with very well-known names
in the business, Servo Dynamics, Kollmorgen, Pacific Scientific, etc.
And it would be almost impossible to penetrate much of that business.
I'm going to concentrate on areas where I am making something that
is pretty much unique.

If eBay had been operating in 1997 like it does today, I would not have
made these servo amps, either. I would have just bought some nice
ones on eBay and slapped them into my machine.

Jon



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Message: 20
Date: Fri, 07 Sep 2001 05:36:43 +0000
From: Jon Elson <elson@...>
Subject: Re: booting into DOS

Marcus & Eva wrote:

> Hi all:
> Can any of you help me with a small boot problem?
> I need a Windows 95 machine to boot up into DOS instead of Windows 95.
> Do I edit a line in autoexec.bat or command.com? or maybe win.ini?
> Any suggestions will be greatly appreciated.

I'm not sure if you can do that, directly. When you shut down, there
is a menu that allows you to reboot to DOS (although it is not REALLY
DOS, it is close enough for most purposes). but, I think if you power
down, it will reboot into Win95. Now, there is a way to make a 'DOS'
boot floppy that is the same version of DOS as the 'reboot to DOS'
version, and if you put this floppy in the drive, it should boot to DOS
from power on.

Jon



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Message: 21
Date: Fri, 07 Sep 2001 05:47:40 -0000
From: mariss92705@...
Subject: Geckodrive G901 problems!!

It has come to my attention that 2 users of the G210 and G340 drives
have experienced missed steps. I have just now been able to replicate
this problem and will be working on a solution for it.

The problem occurs when BOTH of the following conditions occur:

(1) Multiplier set to X1 or X2 (5 uSteps and 10 uSteps)

(2) Very rapid or no acceleration from 0 speed.

There is no problem when the multiplier is set to X5 or X10.

For now I recommend using only the X5 or X10 settings. I will send at
no charge HCPL-2531 opto-isolators to those that must have X1
operation. Remove the G901 board and replace it with the opto to get
X1 operation.

I should have a clearer idea of a cure in a few days. I apologize for
any problems this may have caused and will do what is necessary to
correct it.

Mariss




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Message: 22
Date: Fri, 07 Sep 2001 05:58:15 +0000
From: Jon Elson <elson@...>
Subject: Re: How to select power supply???

Weyland wrote:

> Hey Jon~!
> Thanks for the help -
> Questions interspersed.
>
> From: "Jon Elson" <elson@...>
>
> > > Do you choose the power supply first, or the driver boards?
> >
> > Choose motors first (in general), then choose drivers that can
> > power the motor properly, then choose power supply to suit the
> > needs of the driver.
>
> The motors I got were the specs I posted.
> So I look for a driver now, huh?
> I haven't seen a chopper driver for something with these specs,
> but that's part of the problem. ( I don't know the voltage rating of them)

The voltage rating of the motor is practically irrelevant. If I assume
the resistance is 1.3 Ohms per half winding, then 3.5 A x 1.3 Ohms = 4.55 V
That is the voltage drop across the winding at rated current. You should
be able to run 40 to 80 V on these motors without much trouble. The
driver will handle the voltage to prevent excessive motor current.
You really DON'T want to run an RL driver on these motors, unless you
need a space heater in the shop for the winter!

> > > Do you *add* all the amperages for *each* motor?
> >
> > No. You need to make some sort of computation based on actual
> > power draw of the motors. Since almost all new drivers are swtiching
> type,
> > current into the driver is much less than current in the motor windings.
> > The current draw rises as motor speed increases. But, in general,
> > the drivers will rarely draw current equal to the rating of one winding,
> > assuming a sufficient DC supply voltage is chosen. Even if this
> > current is drawn, it will be for short bursts. Unregulated DC supplies
> > can supply peak power above the rating point for short periods.
> > Also, a slight dip in DC voltage will not affect the drivers.
>
> When you say "switching", are you saying that the driver is turning off
and
> on,
> or that it's acting like a relay, and thus not handling the voltage and
> current itself?
> Sorry, trying to learn.

The driver switches on and off based on the measured current in the winding.
When below rated current it is on, when it reaches the rated current, it
turns
the voltage off for a while, and lets the current recirculate through the
winding
through some diodes. It does this very fast, thousands or tens of thousands
of times a second.

>
>
> > > (for me adding three motors?)
> > > And how can I tell at what voltage these are safe to run at?
> > > 12V or 48V????? Or somewhere in between?
> >
> > This is mostly determined by the specs of the drivers. Some can
> > handle no more than 35 V, some can go to 80 or so. The driver
> > limits winding current to whatever you set it to, so you don't really
> > need to worry about DC supply voltage versus the motor voltage
> > rating.
>
> Sorry, I'm pretty ignorant in the electronics area.
> (probably other areas as well)
> Are you saying that drivers have an adjustable current setting
> so I can tailor it to the motor specs?

Yes!

> The motors are rated at 3.5A uni, and 5.0A bipolar.
> So I should look for a driver that is 5A capable (or rated) ?

Yes, again.

> So, I should look for a power supply that is capable of supplying the
> amperage, and just go with a "in the ballpark" voltage?
> If the motors are rated at...let's say 5A, and it is possible that all
three
> motors will be
> engaged at the same time (three axis move) wouldn't that draw 15A
> theoretically?

Power out must equal power in plus the small losses in the driver.
So, when it is driving your motor windings at, say 5A x 0.65 Ohms (windings
in parallel for bipolar) there would only be a 3.25 V drop across the
winding. Lets assume a 50 V power supply. Power in will need to
equal power out, which is V * I = 3.25 * 5 = 16.25 W. Now, if the
particular drive scheme requires both windings to be energized at
the same time (full step always has both windings on, half step alternates
both, just one, both, just one, etc.) that needs to be multiplied by 2,
so you get 32.5 Watts (neglecting losses in the driver). Current draw
from the power supply will be I = P / V = 32.5 / 50 = 0.65 Amps!
So, you see the current draw from the higher voltage supply is
DRAMATICALLY reduced. When the motor is delivering power
at high speed, the current draw of the driver will go up quite a bit.
How much depends entirely on the motor and driver.

So, yes, it is possible that you could occasionally draw 15 Amps
from the power supply, but it would likely be for very short bursts.
A large capacitor bank could tide a smaller power transformer over
during the surge. 50 V x 15 A = 750 W, roughly a full horsepower.
My guess is that you could get by with a 5-7 Amp supply, as long as
it has some surge capability.
Thanks to those who responded to my request for assistance in converting my
Model 2000 Mill to CNC. My latest question relates to connecting Sherline's
motors to Dan's driver circuit. Sherline's motor has 6 wires and their
specifications sheet illustrates all six wires connected. However, Dan's
instructions states "If you have 6 wire stepper motors remember that the
center tap connections are insulated and not connected to J1-J3." I do not
want to fry either the motors or the board, which recommendation do I
follow?

TIA

Dan Barber