Replies to my help request, Kerk Motion "screwrail"
Posted by
Multi-Volti Devices
on 2000-01-11 22:37:39 UTC
Thank you all for all the responses.
Kerk has something fairly new not on their web site (last I looked), which
suits my needs. They have something the call a "screwrail" that comes in a
1/4, 3/8 and I think 1/2" screw diameter, with screw pitch as tight as 50
tpi. They are for smaller applications, and it basically integrates a slide
and screw together, eliminating alignment issues. The one I got quoted was
about $90 and has basic accuracy of 0.0006"/inch. They quoted me high
accuracy 0.0001"/" for $179. I don't remember exactly what I specified
(other projects going on right now), but I think it was 6 or 8" long with
antibacklash screw. I think they are polymer screws, and the metal parts are
PTFE coated. I know they are probably not heavy duty enough for continuous
usage in heavy applications, but they suit me, and the linear stages I
looked at from Thomson and others were between $500 and $800 with less
accuracy.
I'll pursue details of replies with individuals who replied unless I feel it
would benefit all.
Very interesting list...(coming from a drop-out non-degreed EE who now owns
an art gallery...I'm definitely not a machinist, but all the lurking/reading
is educational.
Thanks for all your contributions.
Murray
multi-volti@...
-----Original Message-----
From: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO@onelist.com <CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO@onelist.com>
To: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO@onelist.com <CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO@onelist.com>
Date: Tuesday, January 11, 2000 9:58 PM
Subject: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] Digest Number 307
Don of STG and he is telling me that he has heard of this problem before. He
is also willing to replace my card (told you yet that I'm pleased to work
with them). The only problem now is that they don't have any model 1 in
stock neither does he know when they will be. So it looks like I have to
switch to the model 2.
determine the card's model number and other function. Also in the makefile,
Fred is using these files when compiling but I didn't read anything about
this in the "what is new in this release-file". Did Fred just silently
upgraded to this model 2 board or is this code still experimental? Do you
guys know that or do I have to ask Fred?
I move slowly there is no problem but accelerating does freeze the reading
of the encoders in EMC but not in SVG-soft in all 3 states (this is
different from what I told last time). This problem occurs in Xemc and Tkemc
that this is a problem for EMC. Anyway I bought from Heidenhein a EXE-
module. This module gives me an optional full Quadrature signal on TTL
level (I don't have to touch my original encodercard anymore, so I can ruin
that one again.)
source is there to be helpful. Tried also to work with emcpanel but this
module gives me an error for EmcStatus? Don't tell me that this is THE
problem? If you guys know other thinks I can try out, let me know, I came to
the end of my Latin (translated expression).
properly sized to the application and using properly configured software.
These machine are all running and making parts.
will operate very reliably. It will be as accurate and repeatable as the
mechanics and positional accuracy of the steppers will allow, assuming the
software is working correctly. In some respects, the stepper system may be
somewhat better in the fact that it doesn't have a following error.
current. Stepper drivers were terribly inefficient, un reliable and costly
to maintain. The newer stepper systems are light years ahead of the older
drives and are not plagued by the same problems.
weldments etc. this machine is using a 1600 oz in pac sci motor on the x
axis, and a 2100 oz in motor on the z. The turret is automated with a macro
which reads standard tool change commands. this machines just runs and runs
and makes parts which are very repeatable for a machine of this vintage.
this machine is about the size of a mini van and I know that the Z axis is
moving lot more weight than 800#.
injection moulds in tool steel. You can see it at:
http://www.grifftek.com/mina.htm
machining 4500 pcs of a glass filled polycarbonate part to a +- 0.0020"
tolerance. I was able to keep the parts within 0.0020" using an automated
air clamping fixture The machine uses some off the shelf stepper drives
driving the original MO63 superior electric 23 frame motors. this machine is
capable of running 300 ipm but I keep it below 200 to prevent unnecessary
wear and tear on the hardware. You can see this machine at:
http://www.grifftek.com/light.htm and
http://www.grifftek.com/images/misc/machined_parts/trojan_gear/trojan_gear.h
tm
capable of the required performance (not all steppers and drivers are
created equal).
violent when >one is moving an 800 lb gantry.
properly sized to the application and using properly configured software.
These machine are all running and making parts.
in which it will operate very reliably. It will be as accurate and
repeatable as the mechanics and positional accuracy of the steppers will
allow, assuming the software is working correctly. In some respects, the
stepper system may be somewhat better in the fact that it doesn't have a
following error.
current. Stepper drivers were terribly inefficient, un reliable and costly
to maintain. The newer stepper systems are light years ahead of the older
drives and are not plagued by the same problems.
weldments etc. this machine is using a 1600 oz in pac sci motor on the x
axis, and a 2100 oz in motor on the z. The turret is automated with a macro
which reads standard tool change commands. this machines just runs and runs
and makes parts which are very repeatable for a machine of this vintage.
this machine is about the size of a mini van and I know that the Z axis is
moving lot more weight than 800#.
Kerk has something fairly new not on their web site (last I looked), which
suits my needs. They have something the call a "screwrail" that comes in a
1/4, 3/8 and I think 1/2" screw diameter, with screw pitch as tight as 50
tpi. They are for smaller applications, and it basically integrates a slide
and screw together, eliminating alignment issues. The one I got quoted was
about $90 and has basic accuracy of 0.0006"/inch. They quoted me high
accuracy 0.0001"/" for $179. I don't remember exactly what I specified
(other projects going on right now), but I think it was 6 or 8" long with
antibacklash screw. I think they are polymer screws, and the metal parts are
PTFE coated. I know they are probably not heavy duty enough for continuous
usage in heavy applications, but they suit me, and the linear stages I
looked at from Thomson and others were between $500 and $800 with less
accuracy.
I'll pursue details of replies with individuals who replied unless I feel it
would benefit all.
Very interesting list...(coming from a drop-out non-degreed EE who now owns
an art gallery...I'm definitely not a machinist, but all the lurking/reading
is educational.
Thanks for all your contributions.
Murray
multi-volti@...
-----Original Message-----
From: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO@onelist.com <CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO@onelist.com>
To: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO@onelist.com <CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO@onelist.com>
Date: Tuesday, January 11, 2000 9:58 PM
Subject: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] Digest Number 307
>discussion of shop built systems in the above catagories.
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>To Unsubscribe, read archives, change to or from digest.newbie questions
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>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>There are 25 messages in this issue.
>
>Topics in today's digest:
>
> 1. INDEXER ?
> From: "Arne Chr.Jorgensen" <instel@...>
> 2. Re: SLO-SYN 12.7 Amp motors
> From: "Jim Fackert" <jfackert@...>
> 3. Re: help procuring NEMA 23 stepper motor mount; first of many
> From: Les Watts <leswatts@...>newbie questions
> 4. Re: INDEXER ?
> From: "Bob Campbell" <bob@...>
> 5. Re: servotogo-problems
> From: "Jan" <postmaster@...>
> 6. Re: help procuring NEMA 23 stepper motor mount; first of ma...
> From: Zeff1015@...
> 7. RE: ShopTask Ball Screws
> From: "S.C. Evans" <scevans@...>
> 8. Re: help procuring NEMA 23 stepper motor mount; first of many
> From: drew@...____
> 9. Re: SLO-SYN 12.7 Amp motors
> From: tyler@...
> 10. Re: Quil Bearings.
> From: "Darrell" <dgehlsen@...>
> 11. Re: EDM Plans
> From: "Ian Wright" <Ian@...>
> 12. Re: ShopTask Ball Screws
> From: "Tim Goldstein" <timg@...>
> 13. Re: INDEXER ?
> From: Jon Elson <jmelson@...>
> 14. Re: INDEXER ?
> From: Jon Elson <jmelson@...>
> 15. Re: Re: SLO-SYN 12.7 Amp motors
> From: Jon Elson <jmelson@...>
> 16. Re: help procuring NEMA 23 stepper motor mount; first of ma...
> From: SNTLewis@...
> 17. RE: SLO-SYN 12.7 Amp motors
> From: "Harrison, Doug" <dharrison@...>
> 18. Re: INDEXER ?
> From: Leslie Watts <leswatts@...>
> 19. Re: help procuring NEMA 23 stepper motor mount; first of ma...
> From: paul@...
> 20. Re: help procuring NEMA 23 stepper motor mount; first of ma...
> From: MIADsgns@...
> 21. RE: Quil Bearings.
> From: Paul Corner <Paul.Corner@...>
> 22. Re: Sherline Motor Mounts
> From: MIADsgns@...
> 23. Re: Sherline Motor Mounts
> From: "Tim Goldstein" <timg@...>
> 24. Re: Sherline Motor Mounts
> From: MIADsgns@...
> 25. RE: ShopTask Ball Screws
> From: "S.C. Evans" <scevans@...>
>
>
>___________________________________________________________________________
>_______________________________________________________________________________
>____
>Message: 1
> Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1999 14:11:55 +0100
> From: "Arne Chr.Jorgensen" <instel@...>
>Subject: INDEXER ?
>
>Hi all,
>
>A lot of interesting stuff here, - but then I start to wonder a
>bit. I may have some wrong idea of what an indexer is all about ?
>
>1. Would anyone care to enlighten me ? ( more down to bits and
>pieces )
>
>2. How do you sync steps with this ?
>
>//ARNE
>
>
>
>
>___________________________________________________________________________
>_______________________________________________________________________________
>argument
>Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 18:43:57 -0500
> From: "Jim Fackert" <jfackert@...>
>Subject: Re: SLO-SYN 12.7 Amp motors
>
>
>> Well, that's just another argument for servos!
>>
>> Jon
>
>Actually, it's another argument to get the accel/decel., step and direction
>stuff out of the pc. Use the pc for the user interface, and let it tell the
>(stepper OR servo) motor controller where to send the servos, and let them
>figure out how fast they can do it without losing synch. You are really
>begging for trouble trying to control real time non-linear stuff and
>interface stuff with the same processor. There is certainly a good
>for closed loop servo in place of open loop steppers, particularly wherethe
>motors are near unable to move the mechanism every step. Closed loop____
>steppers area still a possibility though.
>imho...
>
>Jim Fackert
>
>
>
>___________________________________________________________________________
>_______________________________________________________________________________
>newbie questions
>Message: 3
> Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 08:17:23 -0600
> From: Les Watts <leswatts@...>
>Subject: Re: help procuring NEMA 23 stepper motor mount; first of many
>When bearing fitting
>
>
>multi-volti@... wrote:
>
>> From: multi-volti@...
>>
>> Hello:
>>
>> I'm new here courtesy of Hans W's recommendation.
>>
>> I want to interface a nema 23 stepper motor I have with a Kerk screw rail
>> (I haven't bought it yet).
>>
>> I don't what kind of precision to expect a local machinist to be capable
>> of (what if the guy makes levers for dumpsters?). I'm not a machinist,
>> so I don't want to overspecify precision that may be unnecessary, or cost
>> me more fingers than I can afford.
>>
>
>> Murray
>> multi-volti@...
>> http://users.softhouse.com/uptown/multi-volti/
>
>Murray,
>
>In general .001" TIR or better is used on precision shafts, couplings, etc.
>is involved tenths matter (a lot!)Themac tool post
>
>I'm not a machinist either but I do have a small machine shop. I have a
>grinder for the lathe and can do .0001" TIR over a short length on a goodday. I have been
>making a lot of ballscrew bearings etc.we could
>
>I'm not a job shop but If you happened to be anywhere near the Chicago area
>work something out. I usually let people use the machines free if they havethe
>skills and sign a little thing promising not to sue my ass off if they cutfacility
>off their hand. Otherwise I just try to work out a trade or something
>If I do the work.
>
>What I need right now is rigging help. The whole shop is moving to the
>I built in north Georgia as soon as the Mountain passes are guaranteed icefree.
>will be
>It's only about 20,000 lbs of cast iron.
>
>Stuff is about to go on pallets. Thanks to my huge financial reserves I
>driving the truck.____
>
>Leslie M.Watts
>Illinois Tool Works
>Corporate Advanced Technology group
>(847) 657-4559
>http://www.netcom.com/~leswatts/leswp.html
>
>
>
>
>___________________________________________________________________________
>_______________________________________________________________________________
>____
>Message: 4
> Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 08:45:58 -0800
> From: "Bob Campbell" <bob@...>
>Subject: Re: INDEXER ?
>
>Arne,
>
>>From my viewpoint, an indexer is the electronics that takes the step and
>direction signals as input and then outputs the correct bit pattern that
>goes to the final output transistors to drive the stepper motors.
>
>Bob Campbell
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Arne Chr.Jorgensen <instel@...>
>To: <CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO@onelist.com>
>Sent: Sunday, December 12, 1999 5:11 AM
>Subject: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] INDEXER ?
>
>
>> From: "Arne Chr.Jorgensen" <instel@...>
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> A lot of interesting stuff here, - but then I start to wonder a
>> bit. I may have some wrong idea of what an indexer is all about ?
>>
>> 1. Would anyone care to enlighten me ? ( more down to bits and
>> pieces )
>>
>> 2. How do you sync steps with this ?
>>
>> file://ARNE
>>
>>
>>
>> --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ----------------------------
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>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Welcome to CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO@...,an unmoderated list for the
>discussion of shop built systems in the above catagories.
>> To Unsubscribe, read archives, change to or from digest.
>> Go to: http://www.onelist.com/isregistered.cgi
>> Log on, and you will go to Member Center, and you can make changes there.
>> For the FAQ, go to http://www.ktmarketing.com/faq.html
>> bill,
>> List Manager
>
>
>
>___________________________________________________________________________
>_______________________________________________________________________________
>normal behaviour of the card, normally all inputs are =1. I had contact with
>Message: 5
> Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 15:38:20 +0100
> From: "Jan" <postmaster@...>
>Subject: Re: servotogo-problems
>
>
> To Jon, Matt and the list
>
> >>Jan wrote:
>
> >> It is to say that I'm back to where I was (only the A7 bit is
> >> still initialised to = 0 but I can toggle it with the Svg-soft).
>
> >I still don't understand this, my limit switches are not hooked up,
> >and I have been able to set the software to believe everything is
> >OK.
>
> This seems to be a hardware trouble with my STG-card. This is not the
Don of STG and he is telling me that he has heard of this problem before. He
is also willing to replace my card (told you yet that I'm pleased to work
with them). The only problem now is that they don't have any model 1 in
stock neither does he know when they will be. So it looks like I have to
switch to the model 2.
> Question is can EMC handle yet a model 2 card? I saw in the latestversion of EMC a file stg2.c (h, o,...) in this source file there is code to
determine the card's model number and other function. Also in the makefile,
Fred is using these files when compiling but I didn't read anything about
this in the "what is new in this release-file". Did Fred just silently
upgraded to this model 2 board or is this code still experimental? Do you
guys know that or do I have to ask Fred?
> >> So now when starting up, go out of E-stop, machine on, Dac NOTattached;
> >> when turning the servo, the decoder is read in all the three states,off, State 3 is E-stop reset machine on.
>
> >I don't understand all 3 states. Do you mean all 3 axes?
> No state 1 is in E-stop on machine off, State 2 is E-stop reset machine
> But I found now that when manual or external moving the servo's theencoders will stop being read from the moment I move quickly. This means as
I move slowly there is no problem but accelerating does freeze the reading
of the encoders in EMC but not in SVG-soft in all 3 states (this is
different from what I told last time). This problem occurs in Xemc and Tkemc
> Matt found 3Volt a limit for TTL signals (3volt is the encoder signalI provide to the SVG-card) but since the SVG-soft keep on reading I doubt
that this is a problem for EMC. Anyway I bought from Heidenhein a EXE-
module. This module gives me an optional full Quadrature signal on TTL
level (I don't have to touch my original encodercard anymore, so I can ruin
that one again.)
> So this leaves me the debug-utilities. I looked through the code andfound some. Stgdiag works fine only it lack's of documentation luckily the
source is there to be helpful. Tried also to work with emcpanel but this
module gives me an error for EmcStatus? Don't tell me that this is THE
problem? If you guys know other thinks I can try out, let me know, I came to
the end of my Latin (translated expression).
> Thanks yet for the given attention,____
> So long,
> Jan.
>
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>___________________________________________________________________________
>_______________________________________________________________________________
>very
>Message: 6
> Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 10:15:59 EST
> From: Zeff1015@...
>Subject: Re: help procuring NEMA 23 stepper motor mount; first of ma...
>
>For the lead screw/rail assembly, Kerk makes a linear rail w/ a bearing
>cheap. About $20-$30 for 24 inches. Just have a mount made up to hold it____
>and your lead screw in alignment.
>
>Jeff
>
>
>___________________________________________________________________________
>_______________________________________________________________________________
>they
>Message: 7
> Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 11:42:32 -0500
> From: "S.C. Evans" <scevans@...>
>Subject: RE: ShopTask Ball Screws
>
>
> This may be beneath the level that you guys work but maybe someone can
>offer advice:
>
> I have a ShopTask 1720XMTC which I am running with the CNC setup that
>offered, TMG hardware and software. I think I would like to switch to ballavailable
>screws on the X and Y axis, ShopTask's price is $699.00. Are they
>elsewhere for less, or is that a good price?Does
>
> The software seems to support accessories on a second parallel port.
>anyone have a circuit that will allow a few relays to be operated through____
>the parallel port.
>
> Did TMG ever release the"machine face software" that they show on their
>website as being available in the fall?
>
> I really enjoy reading your mail and figured it couldn't hurt to ask.
>
> Steve
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>___________________________________________________________________________
>_______________________________________________________________________________
>newbie questions
>Message: 8
> Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 08:50:47 -0800
> From: drew@...
>Subject: Re: help procuring NEMA 23 stepper motor mount; first of many
>Coilwinder."
>Murry,
>
>There's a guy named Kurt Bjorn who made what he calls a "CNC Micro
>It's probably smaller that what you want but you might want to check outhis
>web page:fir
>
> http://www.flash.net/~pyroware/cnc.htm
>
>Also take a look at the engine he built. Pretty darn cool.
>
>Drew
>
>On Jan 11, 6:57am, multi-volti@... wrote:
>> Subject: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] help procuring NEMA 23 stepper motor mount;
>> From: multi-volti@...inch-pounds),
>>
>> Hello:
>>
>> I'm new here courtesy of Hans W's recommendation.
>>
>> I want to interface a nema 23 stepper motor I have with a Kerk screw rail
>> (I haven't bought it yet).
>>
>> I don't what kind of precision to expect a local machinist to be capable
>> of (what if the guy makes levers for dumpsters?). I'm not a machinist,
>> so I don't want to overspecify precision that may be unnecessary, or cost
>> me more fingers than I can afford.
>>
>> Upon discovering this list, I suspected you folks know exactly what will
>suffice.
>>
>> I also wonder if I could pay a freelancer to make 1 or 2
>> (money or barter), when I'm ready.
>>
>> I have two needs:
>>
>> I am building a transformer/coil winder. One motor will drive a
>> spindle (?) or mandrel (?) that coil bobbins are mounted on.
>> Due to necessary torque (need 15 pounds of wire tension worst case), I'm
>> considering using a high torque electric screwdriver (90-120
>> and on the 'dead' end of the driven shaft I want to mount a NEMA 23stepper
>> I have which has an integral 200 slot disk and encoder. The stepper wouldon
>simple 'freewheel', or possibly be used as an electronic brake.
>>
>> The second need is where the linear screwrail (combination leadscrew and
>> linear slide in one mechanism) comes in. This one will be driven by
>> a stepper to precisely control the wire traverse direction and pitch.
>> I have both Sanyo Denki unipolar steppers and Vexta 2-phase steppers with
>encoders on the back. I have alot of the Sanyo Denki's and a few of
>> the Vexta's.
>>
>> This application should not need much torque. A precision pulley mounts
>> the screw rail for the under-tension wire to pass over and be moved backand
>forth across the bobbin.doing
>>
>> It is for a hobby application, so if I can find a 'street' method of
>this, my wallet will be much happier.____
>>
>> Thanks for your help.
>>
>> Murray
>> multi-volti@...
>> http://users.softhouse.com/uptown/multi-volti/
>>
>>
>>-- End of excerpt from multi-volti@...
>
>
>
>--
>Drew Rogge
>drew@...
>
>
>___________________________________________________________________________
>_______________________________________________________________________________
>servo systems and installing current technology stepper systems which are
>Message: 9
> Date: 11 Jan 2000 17:48:30 -0000
> From: tyler@...
>Subject: Re: SLO-SYN 12.7 Amp motors
>
>I have retrofitted several full sized machines removing old technology
properly sized to the application and using properly configured software.
These machine are all running and making parts.
>for lost steps. A properly configured machine will have a window in which it
>People seem to really be afraid of stepper systems because of the potential
will operate very reliably. It will be as accurate and repeatable as the
mechanics and positional accuracy of the steppers will allow, assuming the
software is working correctly. In some respects, the stepper system may be
somewhat better in the fact that it doesn't have a following error.
>commonly lost steps, motors were ruined because of excessive heat and
>I do realize that in the past with the older technology that machines
current. Stepper drivers were terribly inefficient, un reliable and costly
to maintain. The newer stepper systems are light years ahead of the older
drives and are not plagued by the same problems.
>producing forklift replacement bushings or various threaded inserts,
>I have an Ikegai FX20 20hp turret lathe that pretty much runs day and night
weldments etc. this machine is using a 1600 oz in pac sci motor on the x
axis, and a 2100 oz in motor on the z. The turret is automated with a macro
which reads standard tool change commands. this machines just runs and runs
and makes parts which are very repeatable for a machine of this vintage.
this machine is about the size of a mini van and I know that the Z axis is
moving lot more weight than 800#.
>motors on the Ahha software and driver. The owner is using it to machine
>I have a mill in the field that is running some surplus superior electric
injection moulds in tool steel. You can see it at:
http://www.grifftek.com/mina.htm
>that has been retrofitted with the Ahha software. The job consisted of
>I recently finished a modification job on a small table top light machine
machining 4500 pcs of a glass filled polycarbonate part to a +- 0.0020"
tolerance. I was able to keep the parts within 0.0020" using an automated
air clamping fixture The machine uses some off the shelf stepper drives
driving the original MO63 superior electric 23 frame motors. this machine is
capable of running 300 ipm but I keep it below 200 to prevent unnecessary
wear and tear on the hardware. You can see this machine at:
http://www.grifftek.com/light.htm and
http://www.grifftek.com/images/misc/machined_parts/trojan_gear/trojan_gear.h
tm
>sized to the application and are driven with compatible software and drivers
>All I am saying is that stepper systems can be very reliable if properly
capable of the required performance (not all steppers and drivers are
created equal).
>the >unfortunate effects of slipped steps before. That would be fairly
>bill griffin
>www.grifftek.com
>bill@...
>
>
>>Message: 17
>snip
>
>>I have finished the mechanics on my big gantry mill and am ready to hang
>motors. I am faced with big bucks to
>>buy 4 axes of servos (400+ in oz peak torque) and amplifiers.
>
>Snip
>
>>I had no intention of using an open loop system on my machine. I have seen
violent when >one is moving an 800 lb gantry.
>____
>snip
>
>>Leslie M.Watts
>snip
>
>
>___________________________________________________________________________
>_______________________________________________________________________________
>____
>Message: 10
> Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 10:36:48 -0800
> From: "Darrell" <dgehlsen@...>
>Subject: Re: Quil Bearings.
>
>Their name is C & M Precision Spindle and the number is (503) 691-0955
>Darrell
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Jon Anderson <janders@...>
>To: <CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO@onelist.com>
>Sent: Monday, January 10, 2000 5:33 PM
>Subject: Re: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] Quil Bearings.
>
>
>> From: Jon Anderson <janders@...>
>>
>> Paul,
>>
>> I'll have to dig for the info but there is an outfit in Oregon that
>> rebuilds spindles.
>> I seem to recall $345 will get you what they call a 4-pack. They replace
>> the center spacer
>> with another pair of bearings, and regrind the taper. Add return
>> shipping....
>> I know I have a flyer from them somewhere, I'll look for it.
>>
>> Jon
>>
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>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Welcome to CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO@...,an unmoderated list for the
>discussion of shop built systems in the above catagories.
>> To Unsubscribe, read archives, change to or from digest.
>> Go to: http://www.onelist.com/isregistered.cgi
>> Log on, and you will go to Member Center, and you can make changes there.
>> For the FAQ, go to http://www.ktmarketing.com/faq.html
>> bill,
>> List Manager
>>
>
>
>
>___________________________________________________________________________
>_______________________________________________________________________________
>____
>Message: 11
> Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 20:01:38 -0000
> From: "Ian Wright" <Ian@...>
>Subject: Re: EDM Plans
>
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Jon Elson <jmelson@...>
>> > Will distilled water make a good dilectric solution?
>>
>> I doubt it. You just can't keep it clean enough. Even if it IS clean,
>the electric field
>> in the gap is strong enough to disassociate the water, producing H and O
>gas. Enough
>> of this can get dangerous, and at 4-5 Amps, you definitely would have a
>hazard.
>
>I was talking to a guy a while back who swears by a 50/50 mix of water with
>auto antifreeze.
>
>> > Is something else better?
>>
>> Very light oils with low vapor pressure seem to be the ideal. 'Odorless'
>solvent
>> or paint thinner is the sort of thing to use.
>
>I tried this with the first little 'tap burner' I made and set the whole
>workshop alight! I would definitely avoid flammable materials if at all
>possible. OK, I know I was partly to blame and didn't have enough liquid
>cover over the work but when I got that first spark and there was a sudden
>explosive shower of burning droplets of paint thinner in every direction
>followed by blind panic and frantic efforts to stamp out a hundred little
>fires on the carpet and down the back of the workbench, I knew I would have
>to find a better dielectric!!!
>
>Ian
>
>--
>Ian W. Wright
>Sheffield UK
>
>
>
>
>
>___________________________________________________________________________
>_______________________________________________________________________________
>some
>Message: 12
> Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 12:43:50 -0700
> From: "Tim Goldstein" <timg@...>
>Subject: Re: ShopTask Ball Screws
>
>Steve,
>
>Having a Shoptask will not get you beat up on this list like it does on
>of the newsgoups. As a matter of fact That is the unit I have and mine ismy
>set up with stepper motor CNC and ball screws. You can look at my page at
>http://www.ktmarketing.com/CNC.html and find links to a writeup on making
>own ballscrew conversion. There is also a link to C&G Research at thebottom
>of the page. This is a fellow Shoptask owner that has done some tremendous____
>work and offers a very nice set of ball screws for only $499.00
>
>I also have a web page that covers the Parallel Port Hookup to Controller
>and at the bottom is the circuit that was provided by Jon Elson and Mo to
>drive relays from the port.
>
>Welcome aboard and feel free to ask questions and give us input on your
>projects.
>
>Tim
>[Denver, CO]
>
>----- Original Message -----
>> From: "S.C. Evans" <scevans@...>
>>
>>
>> This may be beneath the level that you guys work but maybe someone can
>> offer advice:
>>
>> I have a ShopTask 1720XMTC which I am running with the CNC setup that
>they
>> offered, TMG hardware and software. I think I would like to switch to
>ball
>> screws on the X and Y axis, ShopTask's price is $699.00. Are they
>available
>> elsewhere for less, or is that a good price?
>>
>> The software seems to support accessories on a second parallel port.
>Does
>> anyone have a circuit that will allow a few relays to be operated through
>> the parallel port.
>>
>> Did TMG ever release the"machine face software" that they show on their
>> website as being available in the fall?
>>
>> I really enjoy reading your mail and figured it couldn't hurt to ask.
>>
>> Steve
>
>
>
>
>___________________________________________________________________________
>_______________________________________________________________________________
>____
>Message: 13
> Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 14:06:28 -0600
> From: Jon Elson <jmelson@...>
>Subject: Re: INDEXER ?
>
>
>
>"Arne Chr.Jorgensen" wrote:
>
>> From: "Arne Chr.Jorgensen" <instel@...>
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> A lot of interesting stuff here, - but then I start to wonder a
>> bit. I may have some wrong idea of what an indexer is all about ?
>>
>> 1. Would anyone care to enlighten me ? ( more down to bits and
>> pieces )
>
>There are two things related to machines called indexers. One is a
>device, usually connected to a stepper driver, that makes the stepper
>step through so many steps when given one pulse. Modern ones do
>accel/decel on those steps, as well. This is an electronics-only box.
>
>The other thing is more completely described as an indexing head.
>As used with a general, 3-axis CNC machine, it looks kind of like
>a dividing head (which has a crank on the side, and each revolution
>of the crank turns a lathe chuck so many degrees (often 9 degrees)).
>Instead of the crank, there is a button which can be pressed by a
>tool in the spindle of the CNC, and it advances the lathe chuck by
>a predetermined angle.
>
>Other, somewhat similar devices are CNC-modified dividing heads
>(I have the dividing head, when EMC gets the 4th axis support, I
>will CNC it). There are also commercial rotary indexers, usually
>completely separate from the machine tool. We have a couple of
>Yuasa indexers at work, they look like a CNC'd rotary table.
>
>>
>> 2. How do you sync steps with this ?
>
>Not sure exactly what you are asking, here, partly because I
>don't know which of the above things that are all called indexers
>you are talking about.
>
>Jon
>
>
>
>___________________________________________________________________________
>_______________________________________________________________________________
>____
>Message: 14
> Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 14:06:28 -0600
> From: Jon Elson <jmelson@...>
>Subject: Re: INDEXER ?
>
>
>
>"Arne Chr.Jorgensen" wrote:
>
>> From: "Arne Chr.Jorgensen" <instel@...>
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> A lot of interesting stuff here, - but then I start to wonder a
>> bit. I may have some wrong idea of what an indexer is all about ?
>>
>> 1. Would anyone care to enlighten me ? ( more down to bits and
>> pieces )
>
>There are two things related to machines called indexers. One is a
>device, usually connected to a stepper driver, that makes the stepper
>step through so many steps when given one pulse. Modern ones do
>accel/decel on those steps, as well. This is an electronics-only box.
>
>The other thing is more completely described as an indexing head.
>As used with a general, 3-axis CNC machine, it looks kind of like
>a dividing head (which has a crank on the side, and each revolution
>of the crank turns a lathe chuck so many degrees (often 9 degrees)).
>Instead of the crank, there is a button which can be pressed by a
>tool in the spindle of the CNC, and it advances the lathe chuck by
>a predetermined angle.
>
>Other, somewhat similar devices are CNC-modified dividing heads
>(I have the dividing head, when EMC gets the 4th axis support, I
>will CNC it). There are also commercial rotary indexers, usually
>completely separate from the machine tool. We have a couple of
>Yuasa indexers at work, they look like a CNC'd rotary table.
>
>>
>> 2. How do you sync steps with this ?
>
>Not sure exactly what you are asking, here, partly because I
>don't know which of the above things that are all called indexers
>you are talking about.
>
>Jon
>
>
>
>___________________________________________________________________________
>_______________________________________________________________________________
>servo systems and installing current technology stepper systems which are
>Message: 15
> Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 14:16:58 -0600
> From: Jon Elson <jmelson@...>
>Subject: Re: Re: SLO-SYN 12.7 Amp motors
>
>
>
>tyler@... wrote:
>
>> From: tyler@...
>>
>> I have retrofitted several full sized machines removing old technology
properly sized to the application and using properly configured software.
These machine are all running and making parts.
>>potential for lost steps. A properly configured machine will have a window
>> People seem to really be afraid of stepper systems because of the
in which it will operate very reliably. It will be as accurate and
repeatable as the mechanics and positional accuracy of the steppers will
allow, assuming the software is working correctly. In some respects, the
stepper system may be somewhat better in the fact that it doesn't have a
following error.
>steps, otherwise it has already
>That is false. The following error necessarily must be less than a few
>lost a step. But, there definitely IS following error.commonly lost steps, motors were ruined because of excessive heat and
>
>> I do realize that in the past with the older technology that machines
current. Stepper drivers were terribly inefficient, un reliable and costly
to maintain. The newer stepper systems are light years ahead of the older
drives and are not plagued by the same problems.
>>night producing forklift replacement bushings or various threaded inserts,
>> I have an Ikegai FX20 20hp turret lathe that pretty much runs day and
weldments etc. this machine is using a 1600 oz in pac sci motor on the x
axis, and a 2100 oz in motor on the z. The turret is automated with a macro
which reads standard tool change commands. this machines just runs and runs
and makes parts which are very repeatable for a machine of this vintage.
this machine is about the size of a mini van and I know that the Z axis is
moving lot more weight than 800#.
>____
>And, those are HUGE motors!
>
>Jon
>
>
>
>___________________________________________________________________________
>_______________________________________________________________________________
>have
>Message: 16
> Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 15:16:01 EST
> From: SNTLewis@...
>Subject: Re: help procuring NEMA 23 stepper motor mount; first of ma...
>
>In a message dated 1/11/00 10:16:26 AM Eastern Standard Time,
>Zeff1015@... writes:
>
><< For the lead screw/rail assembly, Kerk makes a linear rail w/ a bearing
>very
> cheap. About $20-$30 for 24 inches. >>
>
>the word CHEAP caught my eye. Yes, I am aware that when it comes to this
>type of stuff you get what you pay for. Now for my question. Does Kerk
>a website, dealer, distributor that I can contact? I'm in NC.____
>
>+Stan Lewis
>
>
>___________________________________________________________________________
>_______________________________________________________________________________
>them
>Message: 17
> Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 15:21:53 -0500
> From: "Harrison, Doug" <dharrison@...>
>Subject: RE: SLO-SYN 12.7 Amp motors
>
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Jim Fackert [SMTP:jfackert@...]
>> Sent: Monday, January 10, 2000 6:44 PM
>> To: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO@onelist.com
>> Subject: Re: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] SLO-SYN 12.7 Amp motors
>>
>> Actually, it's another argument to get the accel/decel., step and
>> direction
>> stuff out of the pc. Use the pc for the user interface, and let it tell
>> the
>> (stepper OR servo) motor controller where to send the servos, and let
>> figure out how fast they can do it without losing synch. You are really____
>> begging for trouble trying to control real time non-linear stuff and
>> interface stuff with the same processor. There is certainly a good
>> argument
>> for closed loop servo in place of open loop steppers, particularly where
>> the
>> motors are near unable to move the mechanism every step. Closed loop
>> steppers area still a possibility though.
>> imho...
>>
>> Jim Fackert
>>
> The biggest headache in a closed loop system (other than tuning) is
>usually the encoder. They are expensive and prone to failure. Now add the
>cost of an encoder to a step motor, the fact that large step/direction amps
>are more expensive than servo amps and you have almost as much money in a
>closed loop stepper system as you would a convertional servo drive. If you
>try to make it a true servo system with PI or PID filtering then you also
>have the tuning problems too - this in addition to the fact that you still
>have a motor which, by design, is going to resonate.
>
> Seems more sensible to stick with servo drives if you really can't
>afford the possibility of a following error. However, I doubt most knee
>mill applications really need it. Our old Bridgeport Boss 5 never skips
>steps, even with mushy L/R drives. Many of the older step motor driven
>mills are still running - probably more than the early servo systems which
>were known for instability. True, the newer servo drives are more reliable
>and easier to tune, but stepper systems have improved greatly and still
>don't require tweaking of a transfer function.
>
> The occasional lost step, if it occurs, can be corrected at the end
>of a cycle with proper homing sequences. If the loads are predictable and
>if (big if) the profiler doesn't stutter then lost steps should not be an
>issue.
>
> Doug Harrison
>
>
>___________________________________________________________________________
>_______________________________________________________________________________
>____
>Message: 18
> Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 14:21:45 -0600
> From: Leslie Watts <leswatts@...>
>Subject: Re: INDEXER ?
>
>J
>>
>> "Arne Chr.Jorgensen" wrote:
>>
>> > From: "Arne Chr.Jorgensen" <instel@...>
>> >
>> > Hi all,
>> >
>> > A lot of interesting stuff here, - but then I start to wonder a
>> > bit. I may have some wrong idea of what an indexer is all about ?
>> >
>> > 1. Would anyone care to enlighten me ? ( more down to bits and
>> > pieces )
>>
> I think I was one to mention them recently. Others did too.
>
>To elaborate on what Jon said,
>
>The big stack of gizmos next to me consist of black boxes that connect
>to
>a stepper motor, RS232 port, and ac mains power.
>
>Up to 99 units may be daisy chained together.
>
>A host computer communicates in ascii (as a terminal) to particular
>indexers by specifying an indexer id (like an address) and then
>motion commands for acceleration, velocity, position and other
>commands in g code or other formats. The indexer then executes
>the move and tells the host what it did. (My) Indexers do not
>communicate with each other directly- omly through the host.
>These are only 9600 baud and thus are too slow for rapid
>coordinated motion. More modern ones are faster.
>
>If I use these I will bypass the on board controller and
>just use them for amplifiers. They will fire a single step
>or microstep by setting two parallel data bits, step and rotation
>direction.
>
>--
>Leslie M. Watts
>ITW Advanced Technology Group
>(847)657-4559
>http://www.netcom.com/~leswatts/leswp.html
>
>
>___________________________________________________________________________
>_______________________________________________________________________________
>have
>Message: 19
> Date: Tue, 11 Jan 100 16:28:05 -0500 (EST)
> From: paul@...
>Subject: Re: help procuring NEMA 23 stepper motor mount; first of ma...
>
>>
>> From: SNTLewis@...
>>
>> very
>> cheap. About $20-$30 for 24 inches. >>
>>
>> the word CHEAP caught my eye. Yes, I am aware that when it comes to this
>> type of stuff you get what you pay for. Now for my question. Does Kerk
>> a website, dealer, distributor that I can contact? I'm in NC.____
>>
>
>Try
> http://www.kerkmotion.com/
>
>
>--
>Paul Amaranth | Rochester MI, USA
>Aurora Group, Inc. | Systems & Software
>paul@... | Unix / Windows / NT
>
>
>
>___________________________________________________________________________
>_______________________________________________________________________________
>____
>Message: 20
> Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 16:36:16 EST
> From: MIADsgns@...
>Subject: Re: help procuring NEMA 23 stepper motor mount; first of ma...
>
>In a message dated 1/11/00 12:16:27 PM SA Eastern Standard Time,
>Zeff1015@... writes:
>
><< For the lead screw/rail assembly, Kerk makes a linear rail w/ a bearing
>very
> cheap. About $20-$30 for 24 inches. Just have a mount made up to hold it
> and your lead screw in alignment. >>
>Web page ? for additional information on this type of rail?
>Thanks.
>Mario
>http://www.micro-flight.com
>
>
>___________________________________________________________________________
>_______________________________________________________________________________
>have
>Message: 21
> Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 20:31:39 +0000
> From: Paul Corner <Paul.Corner@...>
>Subject: RE: Quil Bearings.
>
>Hi Darrell, Doug, & Jon
>
>> Did you have the indicator clamped to the quill or to the head? The
>> quil in a bridgeport can deflect in its bore by that much. You might
>> been measuring quill-to-head play and not bearing play.the
>
>The DTI was stuck to the table with a magnetic base. I checked for play on
>quill it's self - no detectable play there. Moved the indicator to colletchuck
>firmly clamped in the spindle - this where I found movement with a pull ofsome
>20lb.to
>
>Lubrication is not a problem - automatic oil feeds everywhere, I just have
>remember to duck when the spindle starts up.can
>
>Thanks for the number Darrell, unfortunately shipping stuff to the US takes
>time and quite a wad. I'll get it done here in the UK, at least Bridgeport
>turn it round in about two weeks.____
>
>Regards, Paul.
>
>
>___________________________________________________________________________
>_______________________________________________________________________________
>____
>Message: 22
> Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 19:19:02 EST
> From: MIADsgns@...
>Subject: Re: Sherline Motor Mounts
>
>HI folks,
>
>ASAP, I need suggestions for a quick way of mounting stepper motors to a
>sherline 5000 mill. Any plans, pictures, web page ref, motors required to
>use with older DANCAM or DESKAM programs that recognize .plt (HPGL) file
>formats to drive the motors.
>
>Thank you,
>
>Mario
>
>
>___________________________________________________________________________
>_______________________________________________________________________________
>issue
>Message: 23
> Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 18:07:44 -0700
> From: "Tim Goldstein" <timg@...>
>Subject: Re: Sherline Motor Mounts
>
>Mario,
>
>Dan Mauch just listed some mounts on his website. Here is the info from his
>page.
>
>Sherline Retofit Hardware
>
>Sherline Harware mounting kits $33 Per axis as seen in the August 1999
>of Nuts and Volts Magazine. These kits include a machined base base, ato
>beautiful extruded motor mount, a precision needle thrust bearing and a
>machined shaft coupling and instructions. This kit is know to fit the
>Sherline model 5000 mill. 3 kits for $95. s/h $5
>
>
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <MIADsgns@...>
>To: <CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO@onelist.com>
>Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2000 5:19 PM
>Subject: Re: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] Sherline Motor Mounts
>
>
>> From: MIADsgns@...
>>
>> HI folks,
>>
>> ASAP, I need suggestions for a quick way of mounting stepper motors to a
>> sherline 5000 mill. Any plans, pictures, web page ref, motors required
>> use with older DANCAM or DESKAM programs that recognize .plt (HPGL) file____
>> formats to drive the motors.
>>
>> Thank you,
>>
>> Mario
>
>
>
>
>___________________________________________________________________________
>_______________________________________________________________________________
>____
>Message: 24
> Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 21:27:53 EST
> From: MIADsgns@...
>Subject: Re: Sherline Motor Mounts
>
>Thanks Tim,
>
>Will check out his web site.
>
>Mario
>
>
>___________________________________________________________________________
>_______________________________________________________________________________
>-
>Message: 25
> Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 21:45:01 -0500
> From: "S.C. Evans" <scevans@...>
>Subject: RE: ShopTask Ball Screws
>
>Tim,
>
>Thank you so much, you answered questions about the ShopTask that I had
>never thought to ask.
>
>Regards;
>Steve
>(Pittsburgh, PA)
>
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>--____
> Welcome to CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO@...,an unmoderated list for the
>discussion of shop built systems in the above catagories.
> To Unsubscribe, read archives, change to or from digest.
> Go to: http://www.onelist.com/isregistered.cgi
> Log on, and you will go to Member Center, and you can make changes there.
> For the FAQ, go to http://www.ktmarketing.com/faq.html
> bill,
> List Manager
>
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>___________________________________________________________________________
>_______________________________________________________________________________
>