Re: What is Cad/ CAM, Controllers and... opinions: again?

Tom,

pertinent parts re- posted, responses below

>"After each line of G-Code,Windows is given an opportunity to do
>it's work. Master Control looks ahead to see if the next 500mm of
>cut are on several lines and will burst at least 500mm at a time on
>curves."

>From this I get that the machine doesn't pause, Windows does.

From this I get that windows WILL pause after EACH line of Gcode,AND
on moves longer than ~500mm.

>Somehow the Gamers have figured out how to deal with the Windows
>stuff and do real time interface.

Really!? Which games? There is a world of difference between "real-
time" screen updates and "real-time" output bits. AND, a stepper
motor is MUCH more picky about its pulse train(ask Matt Shaver)than a
human being!

>I guess my bias against DOS is bitterness from the hundreds of hours
>of frustration it cost me trying to make it work with different
>software and hardware combinations. I would be more inclined to use
>it as a controller if you could run in protected mode so you could
>still have access to the network cards and stuff.

Some do. Stepster and microkinetics come to mind.

>Several of the programs won't even let you run in that mode and
>require you boot to DOS or force the computer to go into pure DOS
>mode with no Windows stub.

The issue here is interrupts. Better pulse train control comes from
interrupt driven software, but since windows is interrupt driven(and
has priority) it "messes with" the CNC program output. Or prevents it
from running entirely.

This interrupt driven software includes CncPRO.

A second choice is delay loop timing. This is often harder to set up,
but will run "under" windows. (windows will still affect the pulse
train, however.) Stepster and DeskNC fall into this category.

The third choice is hardware based timing. Here, the interrupts used
by the system are independant of the cnc needs. Flashcut and
microkinetics are examples.

The only REAL answer(software-based)is a VXD(virtual device driver)
running at root task level(ring 0),essentially making it a "part" of
windows. This is heavy-duty programming, and the third party tools
and/or MS developer's kit are expensive enough to purchase a few DOS
based CNC machines. So we don't have it YET.

Art sez "I'm gonna do it!" Bill Best(bestsoft)sez, "I already have",
the guys at openCNC say,"Us too", and a number of others as you go up
the "increasing cost" ladder.

IMO, we already have EVERYTHING we want in a CNC program. It's just
spread over SEVERAL programs!! And the programmers I've tried to work
with all want to "do it their way". And leave out important bits in
the process, either through decision or ignorance.

>I want as many people that are interested in HSM and CNC to jump
>into this hobby. In my perverse way I feel that the easier you make
>it the more active entrants we will get.

Agreed. We just disagree on how SIMPLE DOS CNC is. (BTW,I AM working
on windows cnc.)

>Hey, I've got an idea. How about we come up with a list of things we
>want in each of the pieces of software and use it as a formal method
>of reviewing all the offerings. If we just compiled a list of
>everything out there and did a check list of the essentials.

Would be nice. I tried to do something like this(Gcodes supported)
awhile back. It went nowhere. IMO, there are basically two types of
people on this list: Those who are doin' it already, and Those who
want to do it.

Those who haven't yet done it are often afraid to speak up out of
their lack of knowledge. Those who are doing tend to justify THEIR
choices. Which is fine. But doesn't often lead to concensus.

Which leaves us with our AWESOME list, where when someone has a
problem or question, they ask, and anyone who cares to answer does
so. And If you're not interested, you just ignore and move on...

>It just might force some of these software vendors to make some much
>needed improvements in their offerings.

Been there. TRIED to do that. Really, If a guy won't even correct the
SPELLING of his screens/menus, how much do you think he cares about
what we think of the internals... (not singling any one out, there
are at least 3! programmers guilty here.)

I will be here trying to help as long as I can, in whatever way I can.

Ballendo

Life IS good.