Re: CNC UI (Virtual hand jive vs. conversational prgmmg)]

Ballendo and the list,

Stuff below:

Alan Marconett KM6VV wrote:

>
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] CNC UI (Virtual hand jive vs. conversational
> prgmmg)
> Date: Tue, 07 Nov 2000 04:41:16 -0000
> From: ballendo@...
> Reply-To: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO@egroups.com
> To: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO@egroups.com
>
> Hi all,
>
> We started with a guy who wanted to retain the use of his
> handwheels...
> Moved to manual vs. CNC (for simple parts)...
> Then pendants, and iso 3 axis handwheels...
> Now, how best to implement "manual" functions in a modern CNC...

Does that mean we're making progress?

> It seems to me that we are "really" talking about the ideal CNC User
> Interface! And it seems that we have already crossed the line to at
> least a partial s/w solution. As we add "features" to the pendant/
> handwheel we start to overlap the functions of "conversational"
> programming...

this "Conversational" approach is interesting. Is there an example?
Could it be "call up a parameter driven g-code file"?

>
> What I would like is:
>
> A SINGLE handwheel(or pressure button/joystick) I can "link" the
> other axes to. (at variable ratios)Defined by angles or arcs. Pop up
> dialog boxes to "insert parameters" for the "manual move" which I
> will control with the wheel/button/joystick. The thinking here is
> that I really only NEED to move ONE axis(arbitrarily) at a time; the
> times when I need to move two or more will be in some RELATION to
> the "main" one.

The "compound moves" sounds useful, but then anything more then a 45deg,
and you might as well use a menu to specify "angle and length" or a new
endpoint (sounds like gcode).

>
> VERY few people(but there ARE some!!) can move two wheels at anything
> remotely resembling an angular ratio(If you find someone who thinks
> they can, hand him/her an etch-a-sketch and say "draw me a diamond,
> or a circle")

Well, I sure can't! It would be nice to just "tweak" the Y axes a bit
more when I am moving the X. Something like "canned" cycles (Jon's)
would be useful. But if I had a CAD display on the screen, and just
"generated code" (like VectorCAD/CAM and probably others), but take it
one step further... Cut the metal. Is this what Ron is up to?

>
> If we use the "standard" Tee-style pendant case(as in the pic posted
> recently), we could implement axis selection pushbuttons on
> the "handle" part(push on-push off/momentary. Selectable by setup
> params:"Scaled" to the primary axis if nec., also by setup params)
> which would allow us to "select/add-in" axis movement while moving
> with the pendant encoder/joystick/button.

Got the case, 2/4 line LCD, an Encoder and some p/b's. All it takes is
a little software... ;>)

> Surely this would equal the functionality of handwheels for getting
> somewhere; "blip" in a little more Y there, oops add a little x. I
> see this working for 3 axes easily(thumb, index, middle finger)or
> (index, middle, ring). 4 axes possible. I'm left-handed. How about
> you?(where do we put these buttons/How do we deal with this? (8
> switch positions in the "case", you pick 3;or 4?) Duh! we buy a std.
> case and each user machines his/her own switch locations!

Yeah, I'm left-handed too! You would put the buttons arranged for each
finger grip? I was thinking of a "select axis" button, and the
selection displayed on the LCD (or LED's). One hand to hold, one hand
to jog, or select an axis (or combination).

> The conversational control screen(s) supporting the pendant manual
> movement functions would allow us to choose circular or linear interp
> (for the add-in axes) and set angles/radius'.

There is a tradeoff between what you can show on 2-4 line 16 character
LCD's, or having the user look over to the main screen. How much do you
want to go back and forth between them, or between the two keyboards,
for example. Looks like we have two levels of operation here, a
"Enhanced Manual Mode" and a "Conversational Mode".

> You could even goof-proof a manual move by having the s/w set soft
> limits according to conversational input( so you don't over-run; the
> pulses just stop until you override...)

Good thought there!

> Allow the pendant to "call up" the conversational screens(for access
> to Jon E style subroutines for commonly used features/pockets,etc.)
> and "tab" through the parameters, and I believe you'd have a very
> user friendly powerful system. Ron G, what do you think?

Now you're suggesting more of a GUI on the main screen (I think), and
the pendant doing "mouse" duty? OK. All keys are re-programmable.

> If I were implementing this, I'd use a "second" keyboard with the
> master/slave switch and write the S/W to use "keypresses" where
> possible. This would mean all the functionality is available at the
> keyboard, and makes it easy to implement the s/w with std. system
> calls.

I've seen the M/S sw idea. I was hoping for something more integral. I
thought notebook computers could use a numeric keypad or "full size"
keyboard as a plug-in to/with the mouse. I have Fry's "keyboard serial
mouse" that I need to get around to testing out (it's for windows, so no
driver yet). Write a driver for it, and "OR" the keystroke flows
(probably what they're doing). I think I'd prefer something along those
lines. Hurriedly throwing the switch to gain control of moving hardware
scares me! I constantly have to reset a keyboard on my work dual PC/
single monitor/kbd setup. Maybe that's different.

> Maybe use the game port also for the "handwheel/joystick/pressure
> switch" functions.

The game port joystick interface is a 555 timer. Really sloppy from
what I've seen. I can't believe it can be used.

> Side note: the game port is relatively slow when used with joystick
> functions. How slow is slow, relative to the speeds we'd need?
> (because the joystick is already there/available and works very
> nearly like what we NEED)

Nearly, but not close enough. No speed penalty on the pb's, so OK for
two encoders. Cheap encoder interface! Yeah, Got one on the machine at
work, got one on my development systems at home, the "shop" machine? No
way. A Microsoft sound card or something, NO JoyStick interface! Oh
well. It's over to WeirdStuff's.

> Ballendo
>
> P.S. It's been awhile since I used it, but the later versions of
> DanCam/DanPlot used the joystick for some interesting "path
> construction" functions. (jog somewhere,mark this point. jog,mark.
> jog,mark. Now DC/DP, those three points are an arc, please draw it
> for me and remember it so we can cut it later!)

Is it really useful? Maybe just a coarse pointing device? You can take
a good joystick gimbals and interface it to a pair of A/D channels, and
THEN It could be useful. Or trackball. Only way I'd want to use it.

Alan