thoughts concerning moving list and archives.
Posted by
terrylr@b...
on 2002-02-26 19:17:46 UTC
hello;
i promised myself i would not reply to this thread but here i am.
first some backgroup concerning the list.
the list was started on onelist.com. onelist.com was originally free with
minimal ads. then the ads started in the e-mails. first they were only 4
lines counting the two lines of 72 '-'s which indicated the beginning and
end of the ad. then they progressed to 5 lines with the same 2 lines acting as
indicators. toward the end of onelist.com the ads kept getting more numerous
and with more lines. onelist.com was purchased by egroups.com.
egroups.com removed the ads for awhile. the ads came back with the same 2 lines
acting as indicators. the ads became numerous and with more lines. egroups.com
than began to offer no ads for a price. this list came together and paid the
price for no ads. shortly thereafter egroups.com was purchased by yahoo.com
yahoo.com removed the ads for awhile. the ads came back with the same 2 lines
acting as indicators. the ads are becoming more numerous. those who read the
list via the web know about this. if you click on a message to read it you
may end up redirected to an ad page before you may actually read the ad. even
if you do get the message directly there are now embedded graphical ads in the
message. now yahoo is surveying about how much a list group would be willing to
pay for no ads. does this start to look like a pattern? it is a pattern.
in processing the archives, i am well aware of the ad pattern because that
is part of the garbage i am having trouble stripping out the of the archives.
moving the group was discussed several times in the past when the previous
list host was purchased by yet another list host. there are pros and cons to
moving the list.
yahoo could be gone in an instant. purchased by yet a larger list host or
just shuttered. the same could be said of anyone who would host the group.
having a single company or person host the list does not provide the necessary
redundancy. accidents, fires, deaths, bankruptcy, etc do occur. what is required
is a more fault tolerant hosting mechanism. what is required is a mirror system.
multiple geographically separated sites which mirror a master site.
the master site changes either every week, month, quarter, semi-annually, or
annually. this distributes the various cost and expenses across the mirrors
instead of the master site eating the cost and expenses.
list software has advanced that allows for mirroring of a master site.
pipermail is the gnu general public license replacement for the older and
currently orphaned majordomo. pipermail has a reasonable web interface.
mirroring is normally done during 'off hours' with rsync. rsync transfers the
least amount of data to resync the sites. rsync is much better than brute force
ftp.
no matter what system would be used whether mirroring or staying with yahoo
until the pattern repeats yet again; there is no nice way to import the
onelist/egroups/yahoo archives into a new system. unless yahoo makes the
original e-mail messages available with intact mail headers ( which i
seriously doubt they would. ) it would take at least a good month of
perl scripts and manual effort to get the archives into any new system.
concerning t1s and servers. wireless internet, adsl, sdsl, and cable modems
are far less expensive and are putting downward pressure on the cost of t1s.
a 2.4ghz 11mbps wireless internet connection goes for around $145.95 usd per month.
if a single master site was to replace yahoo, multiple servers would be required.
at least 3. the 3 would have to be configured for 'fall-over'. routing software
would have to be configured to load balance the servers and adjust the load if
1 server's 'heartbeat' is lost. btw the servers would definitely have to be
scsi-3 disk drives with either software raid or a hardware raid controller.
linux/free-bsd/open-bsd/net-bsd/macos-x/darwin/etc would be the operating system.
this is not a trivial undertaking. anyone who would step forward better be willing
to spend the time and be willing to be accountable to not only the list members
but to bill, and his two helpers. total financial openness would be required if
the list members were going to be asked for 'contributions'.
i could write more but you basically get the drift of what i am attempting to convey.
--
Terry L. Ridder
Blue Danube Artistic Forge (Blaue Donau Kunstschmiede)
"We do not bend metal, we sculpt it."
digging deep, i feel my conscience burn
i need to know who and what i am
this hunger jolts me from complacency
rocks me, makes me meet myself
----kendall payne---closer to myself---
i promised myself i would not reply to this thread but here i am.
first some backgroup concerning the list.
the list was started on onelist.com. onelist.com was originally free with
minimal ads. then the ads started in the e-mails. first they were only 4
lines counting the two lines of 72 '-'s which indicated the beginning and
end of the ad. then they progressed to 5 lines with the same 2 lines acting as
indicators. toward the end of onelist.com the ads kept getting more numerous
and with more lines. onelist.com was purchased by egroups.com.
egroups.com removed the ads for awhile. the ads came back with the same 2 lines
acting as indicators. the ads became numerous and with more lines. egroups.com
than began to offer no ads for a price. this list came together and paid the
price for no ads. shortly thereafter egroups.com was purchased by yahoo.com
yahoo.com removed the ads for awhile. the ads came back with the same 2 lines
acting as indicators. the ads are becoming more numerous. those who read the
list via the web know about this. if you click on a message to read it you
may end up redirected to an ad page before you may actually read the ad. even
if you do get the message directly there are now embedded graphical ads in the
message. now yahoo is surveying about how much a list group would be willing to
pay for no ads. does this start to look like a pattern? it is a pattern.
in processing the archives, i am well aware of the ad pattern because that
is part of the garbage i am having trouble stripping out the of the archives.
moving the group was discussed several times in the past when the previous
list host was purchased by yet another list host. there are pros and cons to
moving the list.
yahoo could be gone in an instant. purchased by yet a larger list host or
just shuttered. the same could be said of anyone who would host the group.
having a single company or person host the list does not provide the necessary
redundancy. accidents, fires, deaths, bankruptcy, etc do occur. what is required
is a more fault tolerant hosting mechanism. what is required is a mirror system.
multiple geographically separated sites which mirror a master site.
the master site changes either every week, month, quarter, semi-annually, or
annually. this distributes the various cost and expenses across the mirrors
instead of the master site eating the cost and expenses.
list software has advanced that allows for mirroring of a master site.
pipermail is the gnu general public license replacement for the older and
currently orphaned majordomo. pipermail has a reasonable web interface.
mirroring is normally done during 'off hours' with rsync. rsync transfers the
least amount of data to resync the sites. rsync is much better than brute force
ftp.
no matter what system would be used whether mirroring or staying with yahoo
until the pattern repeats yet again; there is no nice way to import the
onelist/egroups/yahoo archives into a new system. unless yahoo makes the
original e-mail messages available with intact mail headers ( which i
seriously doubt they would. ) it would take at least a good month of
perl scripts and manual effort to get the archives into any new system.
concerning t1s and servers. wireless internet, adsl, sdsl, and cable modems
are far less expensive and are putting downward pressure on the cost of t1s.
a 2.4ghz 11mbps wireless internet connection goes for around $145.95 usd per month.
if a single master site was to replace yahoo, multiple servers would be required.
at least 3. the 3 would have to be configured for 'fall-over'. routing software
would have to be configured to load balance the servers and adjust the load if
1 server's 'heartbeat' is lost. btw the servers would definitely have to be
scsi-3 disk drives with either software raid or a hardware raid controller.
linux/free-bsd/open-bsd/net-bsd/macos-x/darwin/etc would be the operating system.
this is not a trivial undertaking. anyone who would step forward better be willing
to spend the time and be willing to be accountable to not only the list members
but to bill, and his two helpers. total financial openness would be required if
the list members were going to be asked for 'contributions'.
i could write more but you basically get the drift of what i am attempting to convey.
--
Terry L. Ridder
Blue Danube Artistic Forge (Blaue Donau Kunstschmiede)
"We do not bend metal, we sculpt it."
digging deep, i feel my conscience burn
i need to know who and what i am
this hunger jolts me from complacency
rocks me, makes me meet myself
----kendall payne---closer to myself---