Re: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] Digest Number 3539

I just re-established my account with ProD-express, and they e-mail me a new
key today
No problem.

----- Original Message -----
From: <CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO@yahoogroups.com>
To: <CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2003 6:17 PM
Subject: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] Digest Number 3539


There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. Re: Free Prodesktop Express ending
From: "cut_cl42" <datac@...>
2. Re: Power Supply Basics - Question
From: "Robert Campbell" <bob@...>
3. Re: DynaMyte2400
From: RichD <cmsteam@...>
4. old stepper data
From: "bsjoelund" <tecnoconsult@...>
5. Re: DynaMyte2400
From: Kim Lux <lux@...>
6. Re: Re: Commercial vs. hobby
From: "Patrick J" <patrick@...>
7. Re: Aerotech Servo Motors?
From: Jon Elson <elson@...>
8. Define the Group
From: wanliker@...
9. COMPUTER MONITOR On Topic
From: wanliker@...
10. Sieg X3 CNC Conversions Done??
From: merakulous@...
11. Re: Lathe manual tool changing
From: "Jaime A. B." <jaimea@...>
12. Re: COMPUTER MONITOR On Topic
From: Randy Gordon-Gilmore <zephyrus@...>
13. Re: Aerotech Servo Motors?
From: "INDECO" <indeco@...>
14. Electro-Craft
From: "simplex11us" <simplex1@...>
15. NIST 274NGC bugs -Say what??
From: Art <fenerty@...>
16. Re: Power Supply Basics - Question
From: John Johnson <johnatl@...>
17. Re: NIST 274NGC bugs -Say what??
From: <james_cullins@...>
18. E588 motor ESO588-31-502
From: wanliker@...
19. NOW OFF TOPIC, OFF TOPIC, OFF TOPIC........... NIST 274NGC
gs -Say what??
From: wanliker@...
20. Hexapod ball joints, Moglice
From: "Graham Stabler" <eexgs@...>
21. step/dir inputs to servo controllers
From: "heliarc_bob" <heliarc_bob@...>
22. the demise of CCED...
From: "Carlos Guillermo" <carlos@...>
23. Re: step/dir inputs to servo controllers
From: "Thomas Powell" <tppjr@...>
24. Simple Probe
From: "stcnc2000" <bobbya01@...>
25. RE: Sieg X3 CNC Conversions Done??
From: "R White" <rwhite4@...>


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________________________________________________________________________

Message: 1
Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2003 16:45:18 -0000
From: "cut_cl42" <datac@...>
Subject: Re: Free Prodesktop Express ending

--- In CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO@yahoogroups.com, ballendo@y... wrote:
> opened regedit and deleted my key, (so the program would ask for the
new,5 > year one), then couldn't remember my password. So I tried to re-
> install the "old" key, and it wouldn't let me!
>
> Now I have to wait to hear from PTC customer service...

Warning CAD Discussion:

When you learn something, Please share. I too was wondering what
happens If I change computers. No sense me flooding them with the same
question.

If one can keep a single PC runnning for the next 5 years, their offer
is more than generous.

C



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________________________________________________________________________

Message: 2
Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2003 09:02:30 -0800
From: "Robert Campbell" <bob@...>
Subject: Re: Power Supply Basics - Question

John,

The current needs to be 2/3 not 1/3. You will need about 11 amps for 4
motors.

Bob Campbell
http://www.campbelldesigns.com
Breakout Boards
VisualMill 5.0 basic
----- Original Message -----
From: <jharnedy@...>
To: <CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2003 8:21 AM
Subject: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] Power Supply Basics - Question


>
> Hi list,
>
> Hooking up G201s to SanyoDenki 103 H 8221 - 5141
> Motor specs Vdc = 2.4, Phase current 4 amps
>
> Per Gecko white paper, 25 times voltage = 60 Vdc, hence divide by 1.414
=> 42 Vac
>
> Current is 1/3 per motor (4 wire, bipolar), so for 3 motors PS output
needs 4 amps
>
> If 4 axis, then 4 motors => 5.3amps
>
> Hope above logic is correct, if not please highlight errors!
>
> Have been looking around for 42Vac output, and best i can find is a 230Vac
transformer with 2 independent secondaries, both rated at 20 Vac @ 2.5 amps
( part no RS 805-300 ). Can i hook these up in series to get 40Vac @ 5 amps?
> If so, will there be any issues with using just 3 motors (the 4th may not
be connected up until i can get my head around how to design the fourth axis
economically!)
>
> TIA
> John
>
>
> Addresses:
> FAQ: http://www.ktmarketing.com/faq.html
> FILES: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO/files/
> Post Messages: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO@yahoogroups.com
>
> Subscribe: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> Unsubscribe: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> List owner: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO-owner@yahoogroups.com, wanliker@...,
timg@...
> Moderator: pentam@... indigo_red@... [Moderators]
> URL to this group: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO
>
> OFF Topic POSTS: General Machining
> If you wish to post on unlimited OT subjects goto:
aol://5863:126/rec.crafts.metalworking or go thru Google.com to reach it if
you have trouble.
> http://www.metalworking.com/news_servers.html
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/jobshophomeshop I consider this to be a
sister site to the CCED group, as many of the same members are there, for OT
subjects, that are not allowed on the CCED list.
>
> NOTICE: ALL POSTINGS TO THIS GROUP BECOME PUBLIC DOMAIN BY POSTING THEM.
DON'T POST IF YOU CAN NOT ACCEPT THIS.....NO EXCEPTIONS........
> bill
> List Mom
> List Owner
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO/
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>



________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 3
Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2003 12:53:48 -0500
From: RichD <cmsteam@...>
Subject: Re: DynaMyte2400

Bengt,
Most folks strip all the electronics out and substitute modern PC
controls and cad/cam programs.
The old motor drives are frequently found to be broken and underpowered.
New motors and ~2/1 belt drive makes the machine better than new.
The mechanics of the machine are very nice, otherwise. Good iron.
Prices are highly variable. All depends on the seller, conditions, etc.
RichD

bsjoelund wrote:
>
> Hi folks,
> I would like to know a bit more about the 2400. Has anyone made any
> upgrades or modifications?
>
> I goal is to run TCNC and I would like to know what it would take to
> do a conversion to work. I don´t know nothing about the 2400, only
> that it is programmed with somekind of *basic*.
>
> Is this machine with steppers?
>
> Any hints about refitting a bigger (wider) X -table to get say 20" of
> movement?
>
> What is acceptable price for a used 2400 in good condition, vise + 11
> collets, DM-2010/20/30
>
> Any hints would be appreciated.
>
> Holiday Greetings to all of you
> Bengt


________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 4
Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2003 18:17:25 -0000
From: "bsjoelund" <tecnoconsult@...>
Subject: old stepper data

Hi folks,

I am currently looking at a lathe with some old Berger Lahr steppers
and would like to get some data for these: RDM 5913/50. I think they
are for -82/83. Have been searching but so far no luck at all.

Anybody out there with som hints where to find data.

Thanks

Bengt



________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 5
Date: 18 Dec 2003 11:02:15 -0700
From: Kim Lux <lux@...>
Subject: Re: DynaMyte2400

Those machines usually fetch a pretty good price. I think they are
pretty small for what you pay. If it were my decision, I think I'd find
something bigger. I don't know that you would gain a lot because it is
already a CNC machine. I might be wrong though.

Kim


On Thu, 2003-12-18 at 10:53, RichD wrote:
> Bengt,
> Most folks strip all the electronics out and substitute modern PC
> controls and cad/cam programs.
> The old motor drives are frequently found to be broken and underpowered.
> New motors and ~2/1 belt drive makes the machine better than new.
> The mechanics of the machine are very nice, otherwise. Good iron.
> Prices are highly variable. All depends on the seller, conditions, etc.
> RichD
>
> bsjoelund wrote:
> >
> > Hi folks,
> > I would like to know a bit more about the 2400. Has anyone made any
> > upgrades or modifications?
> >
> > I goal is to run TCNC and I would like to know what it would take to
> > do a conversion to work. I don´t know nothing about the 2400, only
> > that it is programmed with somekind of *basic*.
> >
> > Is this machine with steppers?
> >
> > Any hints about refitting a bigger (wider) X -table to get say 20" of
> > movement?
> >
> > What is acceptable price for a used 2400 in good condition, vise + 11
> > collets, DM-2010/20/30
> >
> > Any hints would be appreciated.
> >
> > Holiday Greetings to all of you
> > Bengt
>
> Addresses:
> FAQ: http://www.ktmarketing.com/faq.html
> FILES: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO/files/
> Post Messages: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO@yahoogroups.com
>
> Subscribe: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> Unsubscribe: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> List owner: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO-owner@yahoogroups.com, wanliker@...,
timg@...
> Moderator: pentam@... indigo_red@... davemucha@...
[Moderators]
> URL to this group: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO
>
> OFF Topic POSTS: General Machining
> If you wish to post on unlimited OT subjects goto:
aol://5863:126/rec.crafts.metalworking or go thru Google.com to reach it if
you have trouble.
> http://www.metalworking.com/news_servers.html
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/jobshophomeshop I consider this to be a
sister site to the CCED group, as many of the same members are there, for OT
subjects, that are not allowed on the CCED list.
>
> NOTICE: ALL POSTINGS TO THIS GROUP BECOME PUBLIC DOMAIN BY POSTING THEM.
DON'T POST IF YOU CAN NOT ACCEPT THIS.....NO EXCEPTIONS........
> bill
> List Mom
> List Owner
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO/
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
--
Kim Lux <lux@...>



________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 6
Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2003 19:27:10 +0100
From: "Patrick J" <patrick@...>
Subject: Re: Re: Commercial vs. hobby

*if* I am lucky ill take the plunge in home-CNC this year!
I idle here to pick up some crumbs from the old wizards here ;-)
The whole chain from a 3D model to finished product in your
mill is a tad mystical until uve actually got it to work...

Ive often wonderd what a 'commercial' controller does better than a new
PC with a software non? commercial controller. This thread showed
promise... too bad admins wants to kill it in the cradle *sob* ...


> Most newcomers get kicked in the teeth after a post or two and find
> out what The groups name and charter mean. The Name really does not
> reflect what the list owners wanted here. That is what we must
> understand.





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________________________________________________________________________

Message: 7
Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2003 12:23:42 -0600
From: Jon Elson <elson@...>
Subject: Re: Aerotech Servo Motors?



Gregory Kamysz wrote:

>I'm hoping somebody will have some info.
>
>I just picked up a 2 axis table setup with servo motors. It's made up
>from two Aerotech ATS412 slides. They each have an Aerotech 1000DC
>series 1075 motor with tach and encoder. I guess the tach is not
>required with Gecko drives. The encoder I'm not sure about. It was
>made by Datametrics, which I couldn't find any information on. The
>glass encoder wheel is marked 1000K3 which is the similar to the part
>number K3DM-1000. The board seems to have 5 output wires none are
>marked channel A or B. Should I just replace the Encoders with US
>Digital units?
>
>
Not if you can figure out how to make it work. These are almost certainly
1000 line encoders, giving 4000 count/rev. Why replace them with low
resolution encoders? If you've already had the cover off, follow the
wires and see if there is a large capacitor connected between two of them.
If that capacitor is an electrolytic, it will have polarity marked with
either
a + or - sign. You should then be able to apply +5 V to the + wire, and
gnd to the - one, and observe encoder signals on the others. With 5
wires, there's
a good chance there is A, B and index (plus 2 power wires, of course).
If no polarized cap is visible, there still almost HAS to be a capacitor.
But, it won't tell you the polarity. You can try using a DVM on diode
test between those leads, and see which way it conducts. If there is
no conduction one way, that may be reversed polarity. If there is
conduction
both ways, the higher voltage reading (on diode test) might be the correct
polarity, bit it is still a bit iffy.

>If I connect these to a Gecko is there a possibility of damage to the
>drive if they are not compatible?
>
>
Since the Gecko supplies encoder power, it is less likely, but possible.
But, if you are able to get it powered up as I wrote above, you'll be safe.

Jon



________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 8
Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2003 13:52:51 EST
From: wanliker@...
Subject: Define the Group

"Seems that the "Define the group" war has sprung up again and it is the
Same 3 or 4 problem children."
A quotation received by me.


Each of these people have done the same in the past, refuse to bring a
thread
back on topic, ignore our messages to them, arguing on list, and in some
instances flaming.

Each of these members have been put on PERMANENT MODERATED STATUS, The next
step will be to ban them from the group.
With some it is a balancing act on whether the good they do offsets the
problems they cause. Right now these individuals are on the scales. AND ONE
SIDE
IS A BIT HEAVIER THAN THE OTHER....................WOULD HATE TO LOSE THEM,
BUT THERE CHOICE, NOT MINE.....................

Reminder, this groups was conceived for the person in a home shop, that
wanted CNC, it is open to any of the list names, but always the person in
the HOME
SHOP, that is the dividing line.

If you want to use what you learn here in a commercial shop, fine, tell us
about the machine, but leave the commercial shop out of it.
That is also why issues like lubrication, feeds, speeds, and any other
normal
shop activities are unwelcome, here. Those subjects are all considered OFF
TOPIC and yak.

ANY DISCUSSION OF THIS MISSAL TO: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO-owner@yahoogroups.com
ONLY NOT TO THE GROUP.
bill
List Mom


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 9
Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2003 14:04:27 EST
From: wanliker@...
Subject: COMPUTER MONITOR On Topic

Some have complaigned about my post on a LCD monitor


This was ON TOPIC, it was asking about using LCD (new) technology, with 450
MHZ (old) processor , with DOS (ancient) operating system, and in a HOME
SHOP
application with one of the modern Hobby priced CNC, CAM program. TurboCNC.

At the same time, this does not mean all monitor or computer questions are
suitable for the group. There are other sources for that information.

If you wish to discuss this, then post to :
CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO-owner@yahoogroups.com

DO NOT POST ANSWERS TO THE GROUP.

bill
List Mom

This is now OFF TOPIC


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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________________________________________________________________________

Message: 10
Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2003 18:28:18 -0000
From: merakulous@...
Subject: Sieg X3 CNC Conversions Done??

Hi, new to the group and to CNC machines in general. I have a
manual 8x14 lathe and want to expand my capabilities with a good
small to mid-size mill, without spending more than $2k-$3k. I like
the idea of CNC, but am concerned about the smaller mill's
capacities. I'd mostly work with aluminum and sometimes steel for
use in making brackets, pulleys, etc. for racing go karts and some
small car parts. I'm patient so if light cuts are needed, that's
ok. X-Y travel distances of 12"x6" are big enough, but I wouldn't
want to have much less than that.

So I'm looking for advice on the best approach - The Sieg X3 seems
to have pleny of capacity for my projects, but obviously is not "CNC
Ready". For anyone who knows the X3 machine, can you tell me what
would be involved, how difficult, and approx how much $ it would
take to do a CNC conversion on the X3. Otherwise, I'd appreciate
any advice on suitable alternatives.

Thanks,
David Anderson




________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 11
Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2003 19:07:41 -0000
From: "Jaime A. B." <jaimea@...>
Subject: Re: Lathe manual tool changing

Thanks Dave.

I feared something like that, but anyway, my compound slide is better
removed from the machine, I'll improve on rigidity and I'll use it
for a tools and cutter grinder.

I'm now trying to buy one clone locally, it's a pity the high costs
of buying from the US from europe (I've liked very much the Aloris
I've seen).

Cheers,

jaime

--- In CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO@yahoogroups.com, Dave Dillabough <dgd@b...>
wrote:
> The wedge versions of these tool posts are better and will do what
you
> want. The US makers (Dorian and Aloris) claim repeatability in
millionths
> of an inch. The clone versions work well if you get a decent one.
For an 8"
> lathe you may have some issues making one fit though. You will
probably
> have to remove your compound slide and fabricate a mounting post.
This
> should not be too big a deal as you will be able to do with CNC
anything
> that you would have done with the compound. There are various
sizes of the
> tool posts available. Make sure that the one that you choose will
fit the
> tool shank size that you have.
>



________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 12
Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2003 11:24:26 -0800 (PST)
From: Randy Gordon-Gilmore <zephyrus@...>
Subject: Re: COMPUTER MONITOR On Topic

At 02:04 PM 12/18/2003 EST, Bill wrote:

>This was ON TOPIC, it was asking about using LCD (new) technology, with 450
>MHZ (old) processor , with DOS (ancient) operating system, and in a HOME
SHOP
>application with one of the modern Hobby priced CNC, CAM program.
TurboCNC.

Bill, both my garage computers have LCD monitors. The first is an
"iopener" (ex-Internet appliance) with a 10.4" LCD (800x600 native
resolution in graphics mode). The second is an "IPNI" (ex-hospital kiosk
PC) with a 12" LCD (1024x768 native resolution in graphics mode.) I use
both of them (not at the same time...) with CNC Pro with no problem
whatsoever. I am sure that each monitor manufacturer has made an
optimized font for their screen so that 80x25 text mode will display
cleanly.

Best regards,

Randy
--
Randy Gordon-Gilmore ,----.___________ ______________ _________________
ProtoTrains // = = === == || == == == = || == == == = == =|
Rio Vista, CA, USA /-O==O------------o==o------------o==o-----------o==o-'
zephyrus@... http://www.prototrains.com




________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 13
Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2003 14:27:13 -0500
From: "INDECO" <indeco@...>
Subject: Re: Aerotech Servo Motors?

Jon,

If i sent you a picture of my servo...could you tell where to connect the
wires?


Thanks, Robin

I have the same servos as Gregory on my Aerotech X Y Stage.






----- Original Message -----
From: "Jon Elson" <elson@...>
To: <CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2003 1:23 PM
Subject: Re: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] Aerotech Servo Motors?


>
>
> Gregory Kamysz wrote:
>
> >I'm hoping somebody will have some info.
> >
> >I just picked up a 2 axis table setup with servo motors. It's made up
> >from two Aerotech ATS412 slides. They each have an Aerotech 1000DC
> >series 1075 motor with tach and encoder. I guess the tach is not
> >required with Gecko drives. The encoder I'm not sure about. It was
> >made by Datametrics, which I couldn't find any information on. The
> >glass encoder wheel is marked 1000K3 which is the similar to the part
> >number K3DM-1000. The board seems to have 5 output wires none are
> >marked channel A or B. Should I just replace the Encoders with US
> >Digital units?
> >
> >
> Not if you can figure out how to make it work. These are almost certainly
> 1000 line encoders, giving 4000 count/rev. Why replace them with low
> resolution encoders? If you've already had the cover off, follow the
> wires and see if there is a large capacitor connected between two of them.
> If that capacitor is an electrolytic, it will have polarity marked with
> either
> a + or - sign. You should then be able to apply +5 V to the + wire, and
> gnd to the - one, and observe encoder signals on the others. With 5
> wires, there's
> a good chance there is A, B and index (plus 2 power wires, of course).
> If no polarized cap is visible, there still almost HAS to be a capacitor.
> But, it won't tell you the polarity. You can try using a DVM on diode
> test between those leads, and see which way it conducts. If there is
> no conduction one way, that may be reversed polarity. If there is
> conduction
> both ways, the higher voltage reading (on diode test) might be the correct
> polarity, bit it is still a bit iffy.
>
> >If I connect these to a Gecko is there a possibility of damage to the
> >drive if they are not compatible?
> >
> >
> Since the Gecko supplies encoder power, it is less likely, but possible.
> But, if you are able to get it powered up as I wrote above, you'll be
safe.
>
> Jon
>
>
> Addresses:
> FAQ: http://www.ktmarketing.com/faq.html
> FILES: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO/files/
> Post Messages: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO@yahoogroups.com
>
> Subscribe: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> Unsubscribe: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> List owner: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO-owner@yahoogroups.com, wanliker@...,
timg@...
> Moderator: pentam@... indigo_red@... davemucha@...
[Moderators]
> URL to this group: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO
>
> OFF Topic POSTS: General Machining
> If you wish to post on unlimited OT subjects goto:
aol://5863:126/rec.crafts.metalworking or go thru Google.com to reach it if
you have trouble.
> http://www.metalworking.com/news_servers.html
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/jobshophomeshop I consider this to be a
sister site to the CCED group, as many of the same members are there, for OT
subjects, that are not allowed on the CCED list.
>
> NOTICE: ALL POSTINGS TO THIS GROUP BECOME PUBLIC DOMAIN BY POSTING THEM.
DON'T POST IF YOU CAN NOT ACCEPT THIS.....NO EXCEPTIONS........
> bill
> List Mom
> List Owner
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO/
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>



________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 14
Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2003 19:09:50 -0000
From: "simplex11us" <simplex1@...>
Subject: Electro-Craft

Does anybody have any information (Or know where I can look)for
specifications on a small D.C. brushed Electocraft E588 motor.
There isn't any electrical informatation on the name plate.
The motor is 2.25" D and about 8.75" long including the
double shaft and Tachometer (I think its a tachometer).

Thank You,

Dan




________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 15
Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2003 16:33:48 -0400
From: Art <fenerty@...>
Subject: NIST 274NGC bugs -Say what??

Jon:

Sorry for the OT, just wanted to set the record straight.

>>> I'm afraid Art has made it pretty clear he doesn't WANT to report any
> of this, as it would reduce the advantage his

I have made no such thing evident. I have sent the entire driver code to
someone who wished to work on a driver to support the servo-to-go for
example. While my source is closed, it is simply a matter of no
documentation and a source only I can really understand as a result. With
over 1000 users, I answer up to 100 emails a day (every day , 7 days a
week. ). I have had several requests for information on attaching to Mach2
and support as well as I can in that direction, but to change the driver in
MAch2 is not like in EMC, Windows is a very complex driver user and all who
have checked have decided it is simply impossible. What I have done as well
is to release to the public domain the Gecko2003 firmware and the protocol
that Mach2 uses for it at the request of developers. I have also developed a
USB flashing routine and released it as open source. I think the future is
USB and am trying my best to support anyone in that direction.

I try to support anyone, anyone..who wishes to know how things are done
and have sent code to many people as a result. This isn't about protecting
source. This is mainly about time and resources. Mach2 is a very busy
project with at least 4 hours of code done every day. (again 7 days a
week.). Obviously my priority is to my users, I spend all my available time
recoding, adding features and discussing machine problems on the Mach2 site
as well as offline support for various machines. As a one-person operation
(and a hobby at that), this is so demanding I have no remaining time to code
special device hooks. I take approx 5 phone calls a day from around the
world, all support, and tests with various hardware makers on top of
everything else.

All one has to do is ask, if you need driver code to try to write a
driver, I'll supply it, but it has been looked at several times in the hope
of adding support for servo's and the best experts have thrown up their
hands and said "impossible", the driver is vastly complex to do its job in
Windows NT, and cannot easily be changed to do anything other than printer
port work. As to "He will make it impossible", I don't know where such a
thing comes from, certainly not from me. I write no code to "lock out"
potential users of any stripe or hardware. (What a waste of time that would
be).

As to the EMC source, you are quite right, I have used sections of it in
development of the Mach series. But while I have fixed many bugs, they are
not documented as I go and mainly pertain to the RS274 modules use in
Windows and the rotational speed fix, which I have explained many times in
detail how the rotation feeds are recalculated both on list and off. I have
stated publicly that the EMC authors are to be congratulated on fine code
and excellent idea's and anytime I can help, I do.

Jon, I really am not a competative person, I began here on this list,
added many things to the list, have tried to support all who inquire and
when specific functions or support can be done, I do them. Unfortunately,
due to the overwhelming time demands of what I do, some things are possible,
some are not. I have heard such comments before, it seems like the success
of the Mach series has put some noses out of joint for some inexplicable
reason, but this is not a planned or conspiratory thing, it just happened as
a direct result of this list. It began as a small program and with a lot of
work has grown to a rather large and popular one which takes an unbelievable
amount of time to support. The irony is , if I could stand Linux, I would
use EMC, I'm just not a linux freak, so I had to write my own for Windows..

Sorry for this OT letter, (if the list mom's let it through), but for some
reason some people like to think I'm running a conspiracy to defeat my
competitors. I don't have any competitors though. I write software, you
like it or you don't, no competition involved.

Thanks for listening....
Art
www.artofcnc.ca




________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 16
Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2003 15:37:42 -0500
From: John Johnson <johnatl@...>
Subject: Re: Power Supply Basics - Question

If you connect them in series, you get 40v @ 2.5 amps. If you connect
them in parallel, you get 20v at 5 amps. If you can use 48v, you can go
here: http://mpja.com/listitems.asp?dept=45 and get two 24v
transformers, or a 24v and a 12v for 36v. If you've got the money, you
can go to http://www.digikey.com/, search for transformer, and use
their parametric search to find the one you want. Try the toroidals,
there are more of those.

On Thursday, December 18, 2003, at 11:21 AM, jharnedy@... wrote:

>
> Hi list,
>
> Hooking up G201s to SanyoDenki 103 H 8221 - 5141
> Motor specs Vdc = 2.4, Phase current 4 amps
>
> Per Gecko white paper, 25 times voltage = 60 Vdc, hence divide by
> 1.414 => 42 Vac
>
> Current is 1/3 per motor (4 wire, bipolar), so for 3 motors PS output
> needs 4 amps
>
> If 4 axis, then 4 motors => 5.3amps
>
> Hope above logic is correct, if not please highlight errors!
>
> Have been looking around for 42Vac output, and best i can find is a
> 230Vac transformer with 2 independent secondaries, both rated at 20
> Vac @ 2.5 amps ( part no RS 805-300 ). Can i hook these up in series
> to get 40Vac @ 5 amps?
> If so, will there be any issues with using just 3 motors (the 4th may
> not be connected up until i can get my head around how to design the
> fourth axis economically!)
>
> TIA
> John
>
>
> Addresses:
> FAQ: http://www.ktmarketing.com/faq.html
> FILES: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO/files/
> Post Messages: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO@yahoogroups.com
>
> Subscribe: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> Unsubscribe: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> List owner: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO-owner@yahoogroups.com, wanliker@...,
> timg@...
> Moderator: pentam@... indigo_red@... [Moderators]
> URL to this group: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO
>
> OFF Topic POSTS: General Machining
> If you wish to post on unlimited OT subjects goto:
> aol://5863:126/rec.crafts.metalworking or go thru Google.com to reach
> it if you have trouble.
> http://www.metalworking.com/news_servers.html
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/jobshophomeshop I consider this to be
> a sister site to the CCED group, as many of the same members are
> there, for OT subjects, that are not allowed on the CCED list.
>
> NOTICE: ALL POSTINGS TO THIS GROUP BECOME PUBLIC DOMAIN BY POSTING
> THEM. DON'T POST IF YOU CAN NOT ACCEPT THIS.....NO EXCEPTIONS........
> bill
> List Mom
> List Owner
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO/
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>



________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 17
Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2003 14:56:57 -0600
From: <james_cullins@...>
Subject: Re: NIST 274NGC bugs -Say what??

WE as for me Art has always gone all out to help solve any problems I have
had.
He responds a lot of the time in minutes.
Jim
----- Original Message -----
From: "Art" <fenerty@...>
To: <CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2003 2:33 PM
Subject: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] NIST 274NGC bugs -Say what??


> Jon:
>
> Sorry for the OT, just wanted to set the record straight.
>
> >>> I'm afraid Art has made it pretty clear he doesn't WANT to report any
> > of this, as it would reduce the advantage his
>
> I have made no such thing evident. I have sent the entire driver code to
> someone who wished to work on a driver to support the servo-to-go for
> example. While my source is closed, it is simply a matter of no
> documentation and a source only I can really understand as a result. With
> over 1000 users, I answer up to 100 emails a day (every day , 7 days a
> week. ). I have had several requests for information on attaching to Mach2
> and support as well as I can in that direction, but to change the driver
in
> MAch2 is not like in EMC, Windows is a very complex driver user and all
who
> have checked have decided it is simply impossible. What I have done as
well
> is to release to the public domain the Gecko2003 firmware and the protocol
> that Mach2 uses for it at the request of developers. I have also developed
a
> USB flashing routine and released it as open source. I think the future is
> USB and am trying my best to support anyone in that direction.
>
> I try to support anyone, anyone..who wishes to know how things are done
> and have sent code to many people as a result. This isn't about protecting
> source. This is mainly about time and resources. Mach2 is a very busy
> project with at least 4 hours of code done every day. (again 7 days a
> week.). Obviously my priority is to my users, I spend all my available
time
> recoding, adding features and discussing machine problems on the Mach2
site
> as well as offline support for various machines. As a one-person operation
> (and a hobby at that), this is so demanding I have no remaining time to
code
> special device hooks. I take approx 5 phone calls a day from around the
> world, all support, and tests with various hardware makers on top of
> everything else.
>
> All one has to do is ask, if you need driver code to try to write a
> driver, I'll supply it, but it has been looked at several times in the
hope
> of adding support for servo's and the best experts have thrown up their
> hands and said "impossible", the driver is vastly complex to do its job in
> Windows NT, and cannot easily be changed to do anything other than printer
> port work. As to "He will make it impossible", I don't know where such a
> thing comes from, certainly not from me. I write no code to "lock out"
> potential users of any stripe or hardware. (What a waste of time that
would
> be).
>
> As to the EMC source, you are quite right, I have used sections of it in
> development of the Mach series. But while I have fixed many bugs, they are
> not documented as I go and mainly pertain to the RS274 modules use in
> Windows and the rotational speed fix, which I have explained many times in
> detail how the rotation feeds are recalculated both on list and off. I
have
> stated publicly that the EMC authors are to be congratulated on fine code
> and excellent idea's and anytime I can help, I do.
>
> Jon, I really am not a competative person, I began here on this list,
> added many things to the list, have tried to support all who inquire and
> when specific functions or support can be done, I do them. Unfortunately,
> due to the overwhelming time demands of what I do, some things are
possible,
> some are not. I have heard such comments before, it seems like the success
> of the Mach series has put some noses out of joint for some inexplicable
> reason, but this is not a planned or conspiratory thing, it just happened
as
> a direct result of this list. It began as a small program and with a lot
of
> work has grown to a rather large and popular one which takes an
unbelievable
> amount of time to support. The irony is , if I could stand Linux, I would
> use EMC, I'm just not a linux freak, so I had to write my own for
Windows..
>
> Sorry for this OT letter, (if the list mom's let it through), but for
some
> reason some people like to think I'm running a conspiracy to defeat my
> competitors. I don't have any competitors though. I write software, you
> like it or you don't, no competition involved.
>
> Thanks for listening....
> Art
> www.artofcnc.ca
>
>
>
> Addresses:
> FAQ: http://www.ktmarketing.com/faq.html
> FILES: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO/files/
> Post Messages: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO@yahoogroups.com
>
> Subscribe: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> Unsubscribe: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> List owner: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO-owner@yahoogroups.com, wanliker@...,
timg@...
> Moderator: pentam@... indigo_red@... davemucha@...
[Moderators]
> URL to this group: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO
>
> OFF Topic POSTS: General Machining
> If you wish to post on unlimited OT subjects goto:
aol://5863:126/rec.crafts.metalworking or go thru Google.com to reach it if
you have trouble.
> http://www.metalworking.com/news_servers.html
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/jobshophomeshop I consider this to be a
sister site to the CCED group, as many of the same members are there, for OT
subjects, that are not allowed on the CCED list.
>
> NOTICE: ALL POSTINGS TO THIS GROUP BECOME PUBLIC DOMAIN BY POSTING THEM.
DON'T POST IF YOU CAN NOT ACCEPT THIS.....NO EXCEPTIONS........
> bill
> List Mom
> List Owner
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO/
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>




________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 18
Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2003 16:22:08 EST
From: wanliker@...
Subject: E588 motor ESO588-31-502

Click here: http://www.ab.com/motion/ec/1015.pdf

Check page 26 and also page 22 for some specs, it is a tach on the back.

E588 is actually part number ESO588-31-502 (pg. 26)


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 19
Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2003 16:49:26 EST
From: wanliker@...
Subject: NOW OFF TOPIC, OFF TOPIC, OFF TOPIC........... NIST 274NGC
gs -Say what??

In a message dated 12/18/2003 1:45:04 PM Mountain Standard Time,
fenerty@... writes:
Sorry for this OT letter, (if the list mom's let it through), but for some
reason some people like to think I'm running a conspiracy to defeat my
competitors. I don't have any competitors though. I write software, you
like it or you don't, no competition involved.

Art, I have no problem with your post at all. And I apologize for the flame
you received.
BILL,
List Mom
**************************************
As of now this topic is OFF TOPIC,
Any answers to: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO-owner@yahoogroups.com

Answers to the group, can result in a member being placed on moderated
status.
bill
List Mom
*****************


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 20
Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2003 23:14:10 -0000
From: "Graham Stabler" <eexgs@...>
Subject: Hexapod ball joints, Moglice

After the recent threads on building hexpods and on the rotobot
concept I started thinking about building one. I decided I wanted to
have decent ball joints as in the commerical versions to avoid
problems with gimple lock etc etc yada yada

So I suggested in the rotobot thread the use of Moglice to produce a
ball joint.

It is not cheap stuff so I am thinking along the lines of a hybred
construction. I will probably turn a cup to house the ball and bore
it in steps to a rough approximation of a socket. Then I'll suspend
the ball (suitably tapped etc, that's the next problem) within the
cup and pour in the Moglice. Obviously the ball will have to have a
release agent layer but at the end a decent joint should be produced.

The question I have is on the machinability of Moglice, if I try to
make a one piece ball socket, will I be able to work at the
aperture. i.e. I will fill the socket such that a lot of the ball is
covered but then I need to increase the size of the hole so that I
get plenty of movement.

Otherise I will go for a two part socket.

I have ordered the Molgice (in the uk), more to follow

Graham



________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 21
Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2003 23:47:38 -0000
From: "heliarc_bob" <heliarc_bob@...>
Subject: step/dir inputs to servo controllers

I have been looking at some servo controllers and have found some
that take step & direction inputs as opposed to the analog control
input. For example:

http://www.logosolinc.com/download/ls-174wp.pdf

It seems that these servo controllers (and the Geckos) could be
driven from a PC with a parallel port. Is this how most hobbiests
put together servo-based CNC systems?

Thanks for help.

Best,
Bob



________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 22
Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2003 15:11:26 -0800
From: "Carlos Guillermo" <carlos@...>
Subject: the demise of CCED...

Congratulations! Within the same week you, the moderators, have
squashed a potentially very interesting and fruitful discussion on
Hobby vs. Commercial controls, and promoted and defended
discussion of a totally non-cnc-critical LCD-compatibility issue.

According to your own guidelines, if "the answer is identical
without the CNC in the question it is not an appropriate topic".
How does that apply to your LCD defense???

Let the censorship begin....

Regards,

Carlos Guillermo
VERVE Engineering & Design


PS:
And on that note, let me just add a fitting quote for these
troubled times:

"Beware the leader who bangs the drums of war in order to whip the
citizenry into a patriotic fervor, for patriotism is indeed a
double-edged sword. It both emboldens the blood, just as it
narrows the mind. And, when the drums of war have reached a fever
pitch and the blood boils with hate and the mind has closed, the
leader will have no need in seizing the rights of the citizenry.
Rather, the citizenry, infused with fear and blinded by
patriotism, will offer up all of their rights unto the leader and
gladly so. How do I know? For this is what I have done. And I
am Caesar." --Julius Caesar


-----Original Message-----
From: wanliker@... [mailto:wanliker@...]
Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2003 11:04 AM
To: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] COMPUTER MONITOR On Topic

Some have complaigned about my post on a LCD monitor


This was ON TOPIC, it was asking about using LCD (new) technology,
with 450
MHZ (old) processor , with DOS (ancient) operating system, and in
a HOME SHOP
application with one of the modern Hobby priced CNC, CAM program.
TurboCNC.

At the same time, this does not mean all monitor or computer
questions are
suitable for the group. There are other sources for that
information.

If you wish to discuss this, then post to :
CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO-owner@yahoogroups.com

DO NOT POST ANSWERS TO THE GROUP.

bill
List Mom

This is now OFF TOPIC


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 23
Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2003 15:32:27 -1000
From: "Thomas Powell" <tppjr@...>
Subject: Re: step/dir inputs to servo controllers

What are the major differences between Geckos and the Logoslinc?
==============================================
Thomas Powell (VMOA 741)
1994 NOS injected T-Boost sales
Tourmaster V-Max Clear clutch cover sales
"LAFGAS" Handlebar brackets
Contact me at: tppjr@...
http://imageevent.com/tppjr (photopage)
==============================================

----- Original Message -----
From: "heliarc_bob" <heliarc_bob@...>
To: <CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2003 1:47 PM
Subject: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] step/dir inputs to servo controllers


> I have been looking at some servo controllers and have found some
> that take step & direction inputs as opposed to the analog control
> input. For example:
>
> http://www.logosolinc.com/download/ls-174wp.pdf
>
> It seems that these servo controllers (and the Geckos) could be
> driven from a PC with a parallel port. Is this how most hobbiests
> put together servo-based CNC systems?
>
> Thanks for help.
>
> Best,
> Bob
>
>
> Addresses:
> FAQ: http://www.ktmarketing.com/faq.html
> FILES: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO/files/
> Post Messages: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO@yahoogroups.com
>
> Subscribe: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> Unsubscribe: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> List owner: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO-owner@yahoogroups.com, wanliker@...,
timg@...
> Moderator: pentam@... indigo_red@... davemucha@...
[Moderators]
> URL to this group: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO
>
> OFF Topic POSTS: General Machining
> If you wish to post on unlimited OT subjects goto:
aol://5863:126/rec.crafts.metalworking or go thru Google.com to reach it if
you have trouble.
> http://www.metalworking.com/news_servers.html
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/jobshophomeshop I consider this to be a
sister site to the CCED group, as many of the same members are there, for OT
subjects, that are not allowed on the CCED list.
>
> NOTICE: ALL POSTINGS TO THIS GROUP BECOME PUBLIC DOMAIN BY POSTING THEM.
DON'T POST IF YOU CAN NOT ACCEPT THIS.....NO EXCEPTIONS........
> bill
> List Mom
> List Owner
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO/
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>



________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 24
Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2003 00:36:23 -0000
From: "stcnc2000" <bobbya01@...>
Subject: Simple Probe

Hi Guys,
I was impressed with the Simple Probe and was wondering if a micro
switch would work? If all that the six balls do is make and break a
circuit and output 3 to 1 volt.
Thinkcnc
Bob






________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 25
Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2003 10:23:31 +1000
From: "R White" <rwhite4@...>
Subject: RE: Sieg X3 CNC Conversions Done??

David

I am doing Mine at the moment

I will give you some more info as I do it if you like

Cheers

Rob
Australia

-----Original Message-----
From: merakulous@... [mailto:merakulous@...]
Sent: Friday, December 19, 2003 4:28 AM
To: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] Sieg X3 CNC Conversions Done??


Hi, new to the group and to CNC machines in general. I have a
manual 8x14 lathe and want to expand my capabilities with a good
small to mid-size mill, without spending more than $2k-$3k. I like
the idea of CNC, but am concerned about the smaller mill's
capacities. I'd mostly work with aluminum and sometimes steel for
use in making brackets, pulleys, etc. for racing go karts and some
small car parts. I'm patient so if light cuts are needed, that's
ok. X-Y travel distances of 12"x6" are big enough, but I wouldn't
want to have much less than that.

So I'm looking for advice on the best approach - The Sieg X3 seems
to have pleny of capacity for my projects, but obviously is not "CNC
Ready". For anyone who knows the X3 machine, can you tell me what
would be involved, how difficult, and approx how much $ it would
take to do a CNC conversion on the X3. Otherwise, I'd appreciate
any advice on suitable alternatives.

Thanks,
David Anderson



Addresses:
FAQ: http://www.ktmarketing.com/faq.html
FILES: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO/files/
Post Messages: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO@yahoogroups.com

Subscribe: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Unsubscribe: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
List owner: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO-owner@yahoogroups.com, wanliker@...,
timg@...
Moderator: pentam@... indigo_red@... davemucha@...
[Moderators]
URL to this group: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO

OFF Topic POSTS: General Machining
If you wish to post on unlimited OT subjects goto:
aol://5863:126/rec.crafts.metalworking or go thru Google.com to reach it if
you have trouble.
http://www.metalworking.com/news_servers.html

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/jobshophomeshop I consider this to be a
sister site to the CCED group, as many of the same members are there, for OT
subjects, that are not allowed on the CCED list.

NOTICE: ALL POSTINGS TO THIS GROUP BECOME PUBLIC DOMAIN BY POSTING THEM.
DON'T POST IF YOU CAN NOT ACCEPT THIS.....NO EXCEPTIONS........
bill
List Mom
List Owner



Yahoo! Groups Links

To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO/

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

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________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Addresses:
FAQ: http://www.ktmarketing.com/faq.html
FILES: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO/files/
Post Messages: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO@yahoogroups.com

Subscribe: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Unsubscribe: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
List owner: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO-owner@yahoogroups.com, wanliker@...,
timg@...
Moderator: pentam@... indigo_red@... davemucha@...
[Moderators]
URL to this group: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO

OFF Topic POSTS: General Machining
If you wish to post on unlimited OT subjects goto:
aol://5863:126/rec.crafts.metalworking or go thru Google.com to reach it if
you have trouble.
http://www.metalworking.com/news_servers.html

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/jobshophomeshop I consider this to be a
sister site to the CCED group, as many of the same members are there, for OT
subjects, that are not allowed on the CCED list.

NOTICE: ALL POSTINGS TO THIS GROUP BECOME PUBLIC DOMAIN BY POSTING THEM.
DON'T POST IF YOU CAN NOT ACCEPT THIS.....NO EXCEPTIONS........
bill
List Mom
List Owner



------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links

To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO/

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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