Ah-ha! in the home-shop; was: Who's your BOSS?

Howdy Tim,

Thanks much for your warm welcome! I've been following
a few of the threads here for a couple months, but I just
haven't had time to jump in myself until now. In fields
other than CNC, I'm a big-time hacker too; so I enjoy
following along as people try, learn, fail, succeed, grow
to the next level, etc..

You asked me to talk about Ah-ha! products, and also to explain
how Ah-ha! fits the 'hobby' market. Since we haven't had
an on-line presence in the home-shop groups for a few years,
and there's a lot to cover; it will take a bit of telling.
Hopefully, at least a few will find something of value or
interest here.

I can answer your second question pretty easily; since we
-are- an important part of this market; and always have been.
I've never felt we were too high-end or 'expensive' for home-shop
use. The 'hobby' market has never been a monolithic group; all
solely concerned with doing it for 99 bucks. There's always been
a percentage who are more serious than average, want serious; and
understand the cost of 'good iron'. I.e, they know they need a
-Miller- TIG welder, not the chinese one. We've always done real
well with these more serious guys.

When we started shipping CNC controls 10 years ago, there
-wasn't- anyone else to speak of serving the home-shop CNC
market. Out of the 2,000+ packages Ah-ha! has shipped, at
least 15% are installed at someone's home.

Ah-ha! has always been about "artisan empowerment", on -any-
level. That covers a wide range of 'situations'; from the
basement, to a business in the basement, to a commercial shop
and your dreams of independence and success becoming reality.
We don't treat home-shop customers any different than we do
a guy with a dozen machines and a big staff.

We -know- that one of the basements we're in today will -be-
that next successful enterprise. I've collected a drawer full
of letters over the years from 'hobby' guys who wrote to tell
me how our control enabled them to turn their beloved craft into
a well-paying gig; and that's the -best- part of the game for
me! It makes all the risks and efforts worthwhile.

I just -love- selling -tools- instead of just 'things'; supplying
stuff that helps -others- excel at -their- chosen craft. That's
what keeps me active in Ah-ha!.

In my experience and contacts with people, I've found the
home-shop CNC market to actually be two distinct groups, not one
homogenous 'mass'.

1) Those who do have a machine tool, but in truth, prefer sitting
at the keyboard and playing with software routines or whatever.
The low-end systems are great for them, because there's endless
twitching, fixing, optimizing, and scrounging to do; and making
parts isn't really their primary interest anyway. It's the
'journey' that they find more fun. More of the 'computer' or
'electronics' type, I suppose you'd call them.

2) Then there are the guys who are serious -machinists-, and/or
entrepreneurs with a product-idea. They may be working at home
too, but with a whole different perspective on it. They're not
interested in spending months and years re-inventing the CNC wheel;
or they've already tried it and got burned or burned-out doing it.
They want a serious control, on their machine, making chips, today.

For the most part, those are our guys.

We welcome 'level-1' too; but we focus on the level-2 guy.

A sub-part of this 'second half' is the guy who -did- begin in
the first group, but gradually became more focused on making
things with his machine; rather than always making the machine
itself. Does that make sense?

Quite a few of our guys are like that. They bought one of the
many fine low-end packages for their 'first date'; but as they
moved to full-size machines and/or started making real parts,
or an income, with their machine; they learned like all the rest
of us that you just -can't- get 150 ipm on a full-size Bridgeport
using 2-amp 24v L/R drivers! <g> Let alone on a Monarch VMC-150...

Experiment, learn, grow. That's the cycle I see, and one that
I go through myself in other fields; so I've always thought that
it's real healthy to also have "low-end" suppliers in the arena.
I guess you could call Ah-ha! the 'upper level' in the home-shop
market, and the 'lower-level' in the pro-shop market; all at the
same time. My personal outlook is this: I think of Ah-ha! as
the 'bridge' that helps people make the crossing from beginner
to pro. They love it...and I do too.

The first-half of the hobby market is the 'university' which
graduates the second half. It works good for us, because the more
guys who buy $599 systems, the more guys there are getting their
first CNC experience; and the more already-educated customers who
turn to us the next year for a more robust & sophisticated control.

You know, for all the discussions over price that there are; I've
never noticed that it was an issue to the really focused guys. It
just isn't that much money, when looked at as your main interest.
Heck, there are lots of people who drop 5 grand just on ski's !
Or $7K on an ATV; or $10k on a fishing boat or their hot-rod.
Heck again, I'll bet that half the guys here right now in this group
have $3-4k just in PC junk alone. I know -I- do...<g>.

Any home-shop player who's gotten serious about the -machining-
has realized that their CNC'ed machine is not only a dream-come-true;
but also THE primary-tool of their craft; and one which they will
have for -20 to 30 YEARS-. When looked at on a realistic basis like
that, a $4K control is only $150 a year or twelve bucks a month!
That's dirt-cheap for the main 'enabler' in -any- serious hobby;
and a not-very-big investment for the huge payoff in parts, profits,
and pleasure. Hey, that's what the odd gods of the galaxy gave us
Visa cards for, right? <g>


I guess your questions have got me thinking about many of the
facets of this fascinating business all at once; so perhaps I'm
going on a bit 'at length'. Before I sign-off though, I want to
cover the -other- side of the equation too...

I talked about how the home-shop market works well for Ah-ha!;
so I want to also mention some things that Ah-ha! can do -for-
home-shop people. I've been reading most of the threads of the
past 30 days, and a couple of them gave me this crazy but fun
inspiration just now...June is 'upgrade month' anyway at Ah-ha,
so I'm going to start it a few weeks early, with this:

There've been a couple of posters in the past few weeks who've
related a lot of frustration with their first-level systems;
likely wishing they could get some kind of magical refund
of their entire $599, and put it towards the 2nd-level control
that they now realize they need for their more involved work.

OK guys, -I'll- do it. Yup, -I'll- give you that magical full
refund. I'll probably regret this in the morning <g>, but here
goes...

-Make- the necessary decision to go for the next level of control;
and I'll take your entire first-level system in on trade, for
every penny you paid for it; up to the 600 bucks I saw mentioned
in those posts. That oughta cover most of the brands in service.
If you paid more, well, my family's gotta eat too. But $600 ain't
bad t'all, and it does cover a lot of the complete level-1 systems.

Just make a copy of the invoice, put everything on the invoice
in a box, and when you get your full-boat Artisan-CNC and beefy
12-amp Powersystem, send me that box and I'll put a direct credit
on your card. I can use those little systems to help -other-
people get -their- first CNC learning and fun. This'll be
win win win for everyone.

Other terms:

- It's gotta be a complete working -system-...not just a pile
of misc. junk from the surplus-store, OK?

- You support yourself, via our 300pgs of manuals, our website
support-files, your peers here in the group; and of course the
Ah-ha! Forum, where you'll be welcome as a new Artisan-CNC owner.

- Delivery time 4-6 weeks; which lets me give proper service to
the pro-shop guys who are paying full price and expect and deserve
our first priority for it.

- Get that decision made and get your order in by June 30, i.e.
the end of our traditional upgrade-month sale. If you dither
and miss it, you gotta wait a whole 'nother year.

- This deal covers any 3 or more axis 12 amp PowerSystem with
Artisan; motors or not; except for the 'parts only' deal below.
We've got halfway decent prices on beee-ooo-tiful PacSci motors
too; brand new full warranty high-tech rare-earth stuff. Like
a 34 3-stack with 2,000 oz-in !

So, there's that magical full refund on your starter-system.
That's something we can do for those who're growing from level-1
to level-2 right now.


Now, something for those of you getting into level-1:

You can order from Bill at Grifftek a full-function CNC-Pro
control software for $299, which is about half the normal
price. No no, I mean the -real- CNC-Pro; the one that's been
shipping worldwide for 9 years. Not the recent entry that
copied our name exactly for some reason I don't understand.
Sure wish they'd change it to a name of their own though, and
thereby put a welcome end to the confusion...<g>

This special arrangement of Bill's puts Pro in the same price
range as the lower-level parallel-port stuff, but Pro includes
a robust Ah-ha! interface card; so you won't have to worry about
flaky operation. Better quality signals, faster step-rates, full
HCMOS noise-margins and output drive, built in EMI/RFI filtering
on inputs; and more of those in's and out's than the PC-port has
in the first place.

Pro doesn't have 'lookahead'; but it does have LOTS of pro-shop
functions not found in many of the level-1 packages. Also, we've
-always- given 100% trade-up credit to home-shop guys whenever
they're ready to jump to the next level. Ah-ha! has -history-,
and we're in it for the long-term. Upgrade policies and warranty
promises -mean- something here. That's another way we fit the
home-shop market.

Of course, you're also welcome to order CNC-Pro direct from Ah-ha!
But from Bill you have the option of arranging support, and he
also has lots of low-cost motors, drivers, machine-parts, etc..


Let's see...oh yes, the recent BOSS-retro threads by Marty
and.....Vincent, I think it was.

Marty, you want to full-retro a BOSS, for serious work, and
you want real-machine performance for a grand. That's pretty
tough Marty <g>...but I -can- get real close for you. And I
think this will cover Vincent's needs as well.

It sounded like you guys have the skills to do your own power
supply, wiring, mutual-support, etc.. Then you won't need our
PowerSystem cabinet or our support-hours. That saves me quite
a few bucks, so I'll hand it right back at ya...

I can put three industrial-grade 12-amp microstepping drivers
and a full-boat Artisan-CNC control-software package with
deluxe IF/Timing card, spindle-speed control DAC's, tons of
I/O, threading-encoder input, etc. etc.; into your hands for
only 1,800 bucks; and with full warranty. That's all the
critical pieces of a $3,600 Artisan-BOSS system.

Fair enough?

Same terms as the first deal. Good til June 30; self-support;
4-6 wks delivery. Might be quicker, but if I'm filling a
10-system OEM order and get caught between driver-builds, the
OEM gets his, and you wait a bit for the next build.

If you're really scrimping, order the above but with CNC-Pro,
and that'd be $1,400. Those numbers are pretty darn close to
"a grand", and you'd sure be getting your money's worth.


OK, one more thing we can do; useful and cheap, for small machines:

- Motors: I was cleaning up part of the warehouse last week,
and came across two big boxes full of surplus steppers. I
can't use them for commercial systems, so maybe they can
help some of you here; who might not have easy access to good
surplus stores.

Most are size-34 single-stack, i.e. about 120-150 oz-in torque,
and pretty desirable current-ratings...2-3 amp range. Shaft
is metric I think, in the 3/8" range. These would even be
usable on the typical 700 lb mill/drill if you gear 'em down
3:1 or so. $15/ea, or 3 for $30.

Also have a few 3-sets of nice size-23 single stacks, about
40-60 oz-in, also 2-3 amp, also likely to be metric shaft,
near 1/4". $10/ea, 3 for $25. Perfect for Sherline etc..

There are a number of other types in small quantities too, and
I'll try to get a list of them up on our website over the next
month or two. Might be a few 34 double-stacks in there, and
some size-34 Portescap disk-rotor motors...very quick motors
with very linear microstepping. Great for high-res applications,
like PCB trace-cutters for example.

Surplus or Used motors are offered as-is. However, I've every
reason to think they all work fine. Spin 'em up right away.
If you get a bad one, I'll send another for 5 bucks if you pay
the freight. I'll try and snap a couple of pics and stick 'em
up on the Ah-ha website this week. Look for a link on the
homepage about...'bargains', I guess, or something similar.
http://www.ahha.com

order any of the above via: sales@... or admin@...


One other thing which Ah-ha! has always offered the home-shop
guy is good technical advice. In the past 10 years, we've
developed numerous controls and related products, sold 2,000+
packages, and performed about 40 -thousand- hours of
highly-regarded technical support. It seems likely that some
of the information and education we've gained may be of value
to this group as well.

In scanning the past few weeks' threads, I noticed several
discussions of technical issues which did seem like they would
benefit from more accurate or more 'real world' information.
However, considering how long -this- post has gotten, I think
I'd best cover the tech stuff in a seperate one <g>. (I can
only get on once a week or so, so I always tend to cover 5
different items in one lengthy post...)

In the 'tech' post, I'll address:

- Several BOSS-related issues; (Ah-ha! has done 500+ Boss's)

- the recently-mentioned slow speeds on BOSS machines
- what the -real- numbers should be on a properly driven BOSS
- how to get those speeds, even using the old stock motors.

- High-voltage drivers; why they're -not- a 'necessity', nor
even desirable in some cases; especially at home-shops.

- Interface Cards vs. PC Ports; the truth of the matter

- Actual RMS current into motors, vs. amp-ratings of drivers

- Some aspects of motor-wiring choices which you might not have
considered, or be aware of.


Several of these items will, I think, be of importance to Marty
and Vincent; who are both trying to make informed purchase-decisions
right now.


Well, I hope that I've properly answered Tim's request to discuss
Ah-ha! products and their fit with the various home-shop 'groups'.
I also hope that the views and insights I've presented will be
useful, or at least of interest to those curious about the
industry.

And finally, I hope that what Ah-ha! has offered here today
will be the right stuff, at the right time, for those who are
either getting started, or making that exciting move to the
next level.

I'm kinda at that stage myself...I've got a big Beaver mill at
home with a 30-station -toolchanger- (wheee!), and it's just
crying out for me to get out there and get the retro finished.
This 'first toolchanger machine' will be a big jump up for my
personal shop.

So, there you have it. I will of course respect the wishes of
the group as to whether my further contributions would be welcome
and of value, or not.

Richard Hager, CEO
Ah-ha! Design Group, Inc.
http://www.ahha.com