Re: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] The Fred Smith VECTOR conference!

Bob,

I think it is you that needs to read the rules. You have been antagonistic
regarding the acceptable and approved sales postings that have been made.
Fred is very low key in mentioning his products and has helped MANY list
members on topics that have nothing to do with the software he offers. He
also supports this group with special discounts that no other software
vendor seems interested in providing.

If you have a problem with the group you have a choice. Leave. I personally
am tired of your attitude and if it continues I will help you out the door.
No threat, just a statement of fact.

I have included Bill's message that outlines the lists intent and rules.
They are on a link at the top of the FAQ. If you can explain to me how Fred
is violating these "official" rules in a private e-mail I would like ot hear
it.

Tim
[Denver, CO]


The following is from a posting Bill (the list mom) made regarding the list
and acceptable postings.
Updated on 4/19/2001


From: wanliker@... [mailto:wanliker@...]
Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2001 11:11 AM
To: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] The Purpose of this List from
bill, List Mom

The purpose of this list is very simple:

Description:

"This list is for discussion of CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO. This list is aimed at the
construction and use of this equipment in a Home Shop Machinist environment.
It is not moderated, but I would hope that the discussion will consist of
Links, sources, progress reports, and things of this nature, on the above
subjects. It not aimed at the commercial professional systems, and there
users. This list is a direct result of the discussions on the above subject
at NAMES, 1999."

It has helped a lot of list members in building there own systems for there
shop, and that has been good.
It has allowed venders to mention there equipment, that is for sale, all
business conducted off list, (this was voted on by list members and
approved)
no full page catalogs.
It has allowed individuals to offer there surplus parts to other members
It has allowed members to ask questions about equipment, software, etc., and
that is good.
It has rambled off topic many times, but it comes back to where it is
supposed to be discussing the subjects of the list name.
But mainly it has been a source of information and learning for most of us.
And this was the purpose of the list from the beginning, before this list
was
started it was hard to find information. We have engineers of various kinds
helping us, we have experienced people helping us, and we have beginners
asking the question that many of us need answered, that is good.

There are few rules:

NO FLAMING, any attacks on an individual will be dealt with a heavy hand,
you
can attack an idea if you like, but not the person, no exceptions.

LISTING ITEMS FOR SALE IS ALLOWED, however no catalogs, and keep it
restricted to items that again are under the subjects covered by the list
name.

NEW ONE:
NO ATTEMPTING AT BREAKING COMMERCIAL SOFTWARE. We simply don't need the
problems that this can cause.

If you get email or a list posting on any of the above rules, STOP RIGHT
NOW,
if you care to argue about it contact me or TIM off list.

I am not trying to be a HEAVY at all on this list, but I, as well as many of
you have seen good lists destroyed by catfights, and I believe this list is
too valuable to allow that to happen.
When I read the mail sent to me off list, both complimentary and complaining
I see mostly concurrence with the above ideas.
In reading the postings since the inception of this list, I am truly amazed
with the quality and quantity of postings that have truly helped me and many
others on there quest to have a shop full of the latest on a low budget, and
this has happened with many. I would like to see more postings with success
stories, with a short list of equipment used, cost, and how it works.
I doubt that most that are the Home Shop Machinists/Hobbyists are concerned
with speed as much as the fact they can make parts.
Feel Free to disagree with my ideas, respect me, as I respect you.
After you have been here a while it is soon apparent how much talent we have
and how freely it is shared. Also it is apparent when there is only
commercial discussions, how many people sign on, and then leave very soon.
Enough of my ramblings,
bill
List Mom/owner

Original list purpose and practices message

From: wanliker@... [mailto:wanliker@...]
Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2000 11:43 PM
To: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO@egroups.com
Subject: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] words from bill about our list. A BIT OF HISTORY

This list was started two years ago after visiting NAMES, and setting in on
the seminar they had on CNC, under the direction of R. W. Friestad from
Cardinal Engineering. Due to my hearing I missed about half of what was
said, and got the idea of setting up a list for our interests, and put out a
paper for people to sign. I got 12 signatures that day and set up the list
after I got home. We now have over 700 members.
My idea was for a list that would confine itself to the list title items.
And we have pretty much done so, and the list has taken off beyond all
expectations. We have had a couple of controversies, but the list has been
really serious in its demeanor. Unfortunately we have had to ban two people,
one that joined the list expressly for the purpose of posting Spam that had
nothing to do with the list, he was also dropped by his provider. The other
one, wanted to get in flame wars, and after asked to desist, he then flamed
me. Sorry guy you are gone, and you have missed a lot.
This list has been unlike some of the others that I belong to, as we are all
after information and assistance, be it software, hardware, or just answers,
and the list has always come thru to the best of my knowledge.
I started one controversy when I chastised a list member, that posted an
advertisement to the list. List members rapidly converted my attitude.
They
asked me to change that attitude and let people list items that they had for
sale or trade, and a question to the list brought overwhelming support and
that has been acceptable since. I still insist that business be conducted
off the list, and think that is fair to all.
The one big NO-No is flaming somebody, the other is introducing politics. I
recently ignored the comments on guns, until politics was introduced into
the
discussion, then I had to step in and say that is enough.
Looking back to times before this list, it was quite unrewarding trying to
find information on a do-it-yourself project in CNC, a few magazine
articles,
and if you were lucky some URL's. Now with the list we have professional
Programmers helping us, professional and amateur Machinists helping us,
Electrical and Mechanical Engineers helping us, where else can we go for so
much fantastic help in our quest for knowledge. And all freely given to the
list for all of us to use.
I ask all of you to understand how this list is different from so many of
the
others we have all joined and then dropped in frustration due to the egos
involved.
There are so many names that could be mentioned and thanked for there
endless
efforts to help, that this letter could go on and on, they know who they
are,
and so do most of the rest of us. The new people to the list will surely
learn who they are. I am not going to mention any of the names for fear
that
with my memory that I would forget too many of them, but these guys all
deserve a round of applause from the rest of us. They are the enablers of
our quest for a home built CNC.
I have not made any hard and fast rules for the most part, rather we address
concerns when they come up, and everybody is welcome to e-mail me directly
if
you see a problem shaping up. A set of hard and fast rules would inhibit
the
list in its growth, in my opinion.
All that said, Flames, Politics, Guns are out, listing items for sale is
allowed, sales correspondence to take place off list.
There are other lists for that stuff, this list is for CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO, and
hopefully it will live on a long time, and continue to help all of us.
thanks for listening to my ramblings,
bill

-----Original Message-----

>Hi group,
> This thread was closed! But of course Fred had to get in
>the last word. I have a real problem with Mr.Smith hawking his
>product here. Rules don't seem to apply to him. What did he do give
>the moderators free copies of VECTOR? FREE hats? Someone needs to
>read the rules! It might be the one who wrote them!
>
> Bob
>

>
>Addresses:
>FAQ: http://www.ktmarketing.com/faq.html
>FILES: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO/files/