Re: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] G's was They're called fixture offsets (LONG)

ballendo wrote:

>Chris,
>
>This discussion is hurt by semantics.
>All your arguments
>

I have had none (arguments). Never claimed that you can't do what I do.
Only praise for a feature that accomplishes many things with one keystroke.

> (snip)
>There isn't any difference between you going to a setup menu and
>selecting an offset, and me going to a setup menu (of fixture
>offsets; or macro) and selecting one... I can also have setup info on
>my "offsets" page relating to my fixture(or "head", or whatever.
>
>These are after all, just numbers which state a distance from a
>switch!) Whether you call 'em step-off or fixture offsets, they are
>the SAME thing!
>

Your right. Though one method does not use any code. I may have been a
little misleading in waving a "flag" over how great using "Setups" to
adjust for a head change, because I prefer a few other things adjusted
when I switch a head than just the Lim step offs.... And, This is where
it does get different. While your going thru dialog after dialog, note
how many thinggs I "could" change this way:

( a quick recap) Calling up a single "Setup" in FC CAN change any or ALL
of the following: ( you know this stuff but I'll ramble on anyhow -
heck, it will certainly give newbies some reading material )

1. Entire mechanical layout from machine Dimensions, to motor steps,
gear ratios, backlash and more.
2. Homing Speeds, directions, tolorances, offset distances, homing
attempts, G27 Autohome configuration and more.
3. Feedrates, ramping, max speeds, contouring settings, dir change
delays, jog rates, arc maximums, motor start stop speeds
4. Complete different configurations for Input and Output lines and
Debounce for such
5. Changes in Custom Mcodes, Tcodes, Macros, G,Mand T "auto executions"
and more
6. ALL Reference points though I do not know why you'd want to.....
7. ALL Fixture Points same as above.....
8. Motor signal polarities, Any and all driver settings
9. Alternative G-code presets like Ignore Gxx, Acknowledge M00 pause,
Debounce wait states on specific I/O's
10. F command alternatives for rotary in degrees or Inches.....
11. Cutter Comp settings and join tolorances
12. Threading Pre-config settings
13. Dxf file import changes / defaults
14. Viewport choices 9 (up to 10)
15. DRO update perameters
16. and Finally, An ENTIRELY DIFFERENT TOOL LIBRARY !!!!

More and more I deal with people who want to build machinery that
somehow is one minute a plasma cutter, then a hot wire foam machine,
then a 3 axis router, or a four axis poolcue maker, then a punch press (
I'm serious! )... Well, I don't care what attachment you hang on, you
can change over the whole thing in the software, ready to go,,, in less
than 2 seconds. Need I go thru and indicate how interesting more than
one tool library can really be ? I hate having an endless list of
tooling because you never know what head you have on... This lets me
"Categorize" stuff !

I'm not giving up the above anytime soon. Lim offsets are just one of
the benefits as I change lots more in one fell swoop.

>I also put a head on, call an offset, goto 0, done. How is your
>method simpler? (But I CAN do this ALSO from WITHIN a program. You
>can't...)
>

First, I can. No problems. But, in my case I seldom have the need. I put
a head on, make a quick software switch, I'm done.... I have all of my
available G5x available. They never moved anywhere, and I never have to
change them. My machine has a definite machine zero as well, but it is
not at the switches.

Your method simpler ? To that point, it is exactly the same, But, when I
put my Drilling head on, I ALSO immediately get my Accelerations changed
to how I like it to run. You can not with a Fixture offset alone,
however yo might be able to get a macro to do it all for you. That is
more work in my book than filling out a dialog box... No thinking......

My engraving head runs such a tight ramp the machine wobbles around on
the floor. I run it that way cause I can make more money the faster I
can get parts on and off of it. That tight acceleration is ready the
minute I switch heads via setup.

Lets go deeper, when I stick on the tapping head I am making, The I/O
lines that automatically indicate a competion of a hole, is changed FOR
that particular head and ready to go. I can use the same I/O lines for
something else if I'd like with a different head or machine config.....
offset, ramp, I/O, everything. ( this is a mechanical device that can be
bolted on any 3 axis machine that allows the Z axis to plunge, start the
tap, Z axis goes into a "wait" state, tap goes down to preset depth,
Head reverses, sends a signal to the control to move to the next hole
when fully out ) Just a setup change.... Max rates are limited here for
safety, accels are smooooothed,,,,,,

>BTW, if I want to include feedrate information tied to a particular
>offset, I simply use a macro, or an alias gcode (same thing, but with
>two names). So I can get my machine set up so that all I have to do
>is call G425; and it moves to the zero of that particular "heads"
>postion, installs feedrates, etc. This is with commercial controls.
>

And if necessary, I can also do most of that....... interestingly, I
found I do not need to complicate matters for "what I do".

>In programs like Mach1, I just call a new profile. With DeskNC, I use
>the machine menu. With Ah-ha, I load a new setup file.
>

Well, this is what I do as well. Handy option to say the very least, but
in the programs you mention, none have a lim step off setting :-( Not
looking back. Then, Mach1 has this "floating" concept of machine zero
! Yikes !! I am very confident that that gets fixed though... And If I
were a betting man, Your gonna see Lim step offsets in Mach2... It is
inevitable, if he is "talking" to the OEM crowd at this level. The OEM
crowd has one BIG concern.... *cost*. If they can get it to retro into
any machine for cheap, Mach1 will make a large dent in the quite large
OEM market of Flashcut. That too, is inevitable if the program gets
done. However, it is going to have to be polished, working, complete,
and not "changing daily" product. Mr. Fenerty has shown he has the
talent to accomplish all of that in my opinion.... just wait a few weeks
after he comes back all rested up ! ( then again, he might be tired from
chasing bahama beach women ? not sure what he really goes there for :- )

I could tell you exactly how FC's lim offset made such a believer out of
me but it would be lengthy. It did involve Ah-ha, and a certain OEM CNC
Flatbed Router, and some very unique needs. FC saved the day, Ah-ha was
removed. The card sold to a kid in the shop for $50 Their drivers
worked real nice with FC though!

>The only reason I am pushing this so hard is that I don't think we
>need more names for the same old things (just because we've got new
>programmers working on them; who aren't familiar with the old things
>already in place.)
>
>You see, we're in agreement. We both want to go to many particular
>locations (coord systems, really) easily...
>

It's not more names for things we already have as much as it is NEW
OPTIONS so one can get the job done, so one can fit a control on any old
machine, mechanism or device. There really is no one forcing anyone to
use limit offsets in Flashcut,,, Set them to Zero if you'd like ! Ignore
them, or use them if they help accomplish something. And, I do
understand you in regards new programmers, coming up with their own
terms..... and names.

>P.S. Chris, please read the above message carefully. Your message
>says some things which show that you have not yet understood what I
>have been saying...
>

I do, trust me. We are reading the same book. You made a statement that
you do not think we should bother with such new "thingys"... ( words to
that effect) that they are unecessary, that we have old names and
techniques that work just fine... I don't feel that way. I want people
to push things to the limit. To think outside the box for a while. Just
because Grampa did it a certain way does not mean I have to. ( those 20
mile walks to school uphill each way would have killed me )
I admire totally new concepts that appear (mostly in user interfaces
actually) in this market. And, I bet you feel the same. We are on the
same page I'd bet. I assure you, the Lim offsets alone allow for more
retro applications than if it did not have it. Watch... Mach 1 will get
them.......

> Whether an end is achieved by calling a gcode or
>by using a setup screen,menu, etc.; it is still achieved. I don't
>need wrenches to adjust for .001 on a home switch. And I set program
>zero easily and quickly too.
>

I understand.. You use a G5x fixture point............ Mine were all
used up under Flashcut V1. All my older tooling files reflect how it was
run in order to acheive the necessary things. Now Flashcut V2 has gobs
more "reference" and fixture capability. The nice thing is I do not have
to change anything even with the new version.

>I'll stand firm that MACHINE HOME should be ONE FIXED place. Machine
>ZERO is what you have been talking about, tho' you have referred to
>it as machine home.
>

And that is my fault as I probably said home, though I should have said
zero....... "Home" is where the switches are... Agreed....... Your
machine goes to the switch and stops, or tags them and backs off to
change state. Mine backs off where ever "I" want it to. My only
point.... thru-ought... Since I've had the option, I'm not giving it up
anytime soon. Worse yet, because I have a hundred routine files, I'd
rather not change them because i moved to a controller that did not
allow what I do now. Works for me. I'm sure your methods work for you.
That is all that matters. That your happy with what you have !

I assume this to be our last lengthy discussion on this publicly... I
will refrain from mentioning Lim StepOffs ever again !

Be good,
Chris L