G's was They're called fixture offsets

Chris,

This discussion is hurt by semantics.
All your arguments disappear when I use any control which has more
than the std six G54-59... And most modern controls do. Even EMC has
9. (59.1,59.2,59.3) In a Haas control, they are high number g codes
G110-G129. I also have G10, which lets me make changes to either
machine, fixture, tool, or wear offsets, depending upon the control.
I can do anything you have mentioned, just as easily, without having
the step-offs you value so highly. And I can do more...

Just because you CAN call the offset with a gcode doesn't mean you
HAVE to... (but being ABLE to gives me more power than your setup
menu only offsets) I can go to the offsets page (justlike your setup
page) to see the related information. Or the macros page (more below)

There isn't any difference between you going to a setup menu and
selecting an offset, and me going to a setup menu (of fixture
offsets; or macro) and selecting one... I can also have setup info on
my "offsets" page relating to my fixture(or "head", or whatever.
These are after all, just numbers which state a distance from a
switch!) Whether you call 'em step-off or fixture offsets, they are
the SAME thing!

I also put a head on, call an offset, goto 0, done. How is your
method simpler? (But I CAN do this ALSO from WITHIN a program. You
can't...)

BTW, if I want to include feedrate information tied to a particular
offset, I simply use a macro, or an alias gcode (same thing, but with
two names). So I can get my machine set up so that all I have to do
is call G425; and it moves to the zero of that particular "heads"
postion, installs feedrates, etc. This is with commercial controls.
In programs like Mach1, I just call a new profile. With DeskNC, I use
the machine menu. With Ah-ha, I load a new setup file.

The only reason I am pushing this so hard is that I don't think we
need more names for the same old things (just because we've got new
programmers working on them; who aren't familiar with the old things
already in place.)

You see, we're in agreement. We both want to go to many particular
locations (coord systems, really) easily...

Hope this helps,

Ballendo

P.S. Chris, please read the above message carefully. Your message
says some things which show that you have not yet understood what I
have been saying... Whether an end is achieved by calling a gcode or
by using a setup screen,menu, etc.; it is still achieved. I don't
need wrenches to adjust for .001 on a home switch. And I set program
zero easily and quickly too.

I'll stand firm that MACHINE HOME should be ONE FIXED place. Machine
ZERO is what you have been talking about, tho' you have referred to
it as machine home. As long as your switches are not moving, you have
only one machine home. The fact is that with different setups you
move FROM the home switches TO a given position and reset this as
machine zero. Machine HOME has not moved. And PART zero relates to
machine zero, which relates to machine home. Of which there is one.

--- In CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO@yahoogroups.com, CL <datac@l...> wrote:
> ballendo wrote:
>
> >Chris,
> >
> >This is what fixture offsets are for...
> >
> >
> Well, in your theme they HAVE to be, cause you don't have a limit
step
> off option available !! :-)
>
> >A fixture offset is nothing more than a set distance from the
> >physical location of the home switches. Most current machines have
at
> >least 6 (G54-59), and many have MANY more.
> >
> FlashCut has these six "Fixture Offsets" and that is exactly what I
use
> them for "Fixtures", and only Fixtures. These are physical
> device/clamps/mechanisms I can locate on my table top via Dowel Pin
> Locations. Seeing as I only had 6, I sure would hate to waste some
of
> them on "head offsets" though. That is what the Lim Step offs have
> accomplished for me, as well as making any hardware limit switch
> adjustments obsolete, as now I can place any spindle on the machine
and
> adjust it out via controller software, no commands in any code, no
MDI
> thingys to remember after homing sequences.
>
> By your definition above, Flaschuts Limit Step off adjustment IS
indeed
> nothing more than a fixture offset...They certainly could have
called it
> "head Offset"... . Its just not tied to any code and it shouldn't
be.
> For that, wonderful. I can "tie offsets" to >hardware< ! I love it.
>
> It just tons easier ! Put a head on, open the "setup" for that
head,
> home the machine. DONE, ready, aligned to fixed fence, aligned
perfectly
> for use of Any of the available 6 fixture offsets. Also ready to
Run ANY
> existing toolpath I have created over the last few years no matter
what
> spindle or head....And, I didn't even have to look or remember
which
> G-offset I was supposed to use for which head. The FC "setup name"
> defines the head ! With 256 character file names,,, I sure can
describe
> a lot of head/ramp/speed/yaddayaddayadda preset issues ! Think
about the
> options to accomodate different rates because of spindle weight,
maximum
> speeds, etc.... Your G5x can't do that ! My setup file WITH a step
off can.
>
> I have 4 different "heads" I can use, and unfortunately, they do
not all
> carry the same centerlines. Now I could build some very special
holders
> to get them all perfectly lined up, but, well, I don't have too !
>
> Thus, If I wasted 4 of my "fixture offsets" for "head offsets",
I'd be
> in trouble with all of the G5x commands in my existing and
routinely run
> programs for the 5 fixture locations I already have ! 5+4=6?
>
> >(snip)And these WILL be away from the home switches (by
> >whatever amount was determined at setup(for toolpath), or
> >configuration(of the control)).
> >
> See now we are getting somewhere..... First off, FC has not allowed
you
> to say "go to fixture offset x" (it will soon though). So at the
> control, you could NOT get there without running code, or typing in
the
> locations and do a move command. But all of that is Moot. Even if I
did
> enter it at the control to adjust for a head offset, I waste an
offset,
> go thru more steps to do the same thing, Not to mention, I'd by far
> rather leave a G5x command to the execution of code, and not a
manual
> entry thing just so you can set part 0.
>
> > Which of these two words fit best is
> >largely determined by the control topology, and really simply
means
> >how easily the offsets are accessed, determined and changed.
> >
> >So to sum up, any "responsible" control will have ONE, and one
only:
> >machine HOME. It WILL be at the switches themselves.
> >
> We'll be on two different sides of the street on this one. I feel a
> "responsible control" will give its purchaser MORE than they really
need
> ! It comes down to "control".... >Control< What ?? Seeing as how a
limit
> offset could be added with virtually no sweat produced by a
competent
> programmer, Why not add it ? Then the Doors of opportunity open
wide for
> the developer for his control to go above and beyond the needs of
some
> simple 3 or 4 axis rotary machine and into the world of controlling
just
> about anything that moves. I've mentioned it before.... You'll pry
it
> from my ccccccold dead hands !
>
> >AND this control WILL have the ability to "refer to" other
positions
> >as toolpath or part zero for use with toolpaths. These are the
> >fixture offsets. So ALL of the things you mention ARE handled by
the
> >fixture offsets, and it simply becomes a case of terminology
> >complicating things. Something for which CNC is well known!
> >
> That is the case in point.. all one needs is what one "needs". I am
here
> to tell you, 6 Fixture offsets are not enough for me as I have more
> heads and more offsets than 6. Thankfully, Flashcut Version 2 has
added
> "reference points" that serve the same function... 29 of them in
fact,
> for those who refuse to use the Limit step off features. All
callable
> from the G-code file.
>
> Nonetheless, I'll not give up the Limit step off. Never ! It
allows me
> to adjust machine zero in mere split seconds, without using an
otherwise
> G-code commanded location, or getting out the wrenches and trying
to
> make or take .001 out of a mechanical switch.
>
> Chris L