Re: Newbie - Help & Clarifications

If you believe that having safety features on the machine tools is
what caused the machine tool industry collapse here in the U.S., I
have a really pretty bridge to sell you!

That is about the dumbest thing I have read in a while. If it were
remotely true, then Haas wouldn't be selling machines like crazy,
nor would Fadal.

The american machine tool industry failed because it stuck to it's
old world beliefs and did not compete with the Japanese (or other
global mfgs.).

Our auto industry nearly died in the 70's and 80's, again, due to
horrid quality control, the worst designs found nearly anywhere in
the world, and simply, piss poor management! If it were not for the
Japanese cars coming into the USA during that time, American made
cars wouldn't last 10,000 miles today. Luckily, the auto industry
woke up, realized they were not "the best in the world" faced the
facts that they were about the worst in the world, and made changes.

The machine tool industry did not make the changes to compete in a
global market. G & L purchased Fadal to stay afloat, otherwise they
too would be history. During the 80's and 90's machine tools could
be bought from Japan or even Europe for less money than similar
sized machines in the U.S., However, the imported machine tools
performed better, ran faster, had far less downtime, and cost far
less. The american machine tool industry failed due to it's own
ignorance and arrogance, not because of safety features - that is
just dumb!

Chris









--- In CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO@yahoogroups.com, "Fred Smith" <imserv@v...>
wrote:

> --- In CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO@yahoogroups.com, "David A. Frantz"
> <spinwizard@f...> wrote:
> > Fred Smith wrote:
>
> > >In the not so distant past, many machining centers and turning
> > >centers were shipped fully enclosed, and with door interlocks
> that
> > >prevented access to tool, part, and/or fixtures. There was
> little
> > >if any provision for view ports into the enclosed machine
> workspace.
> > >
> > >
> >
> > As far as I know they still come this way.
>
> Yes, many do, but now the controllers have a setup mode which

allows

> the spindle to be used in setup mode. There are also

the "toolroom"

> lathes and mills, which are not fully enclosed, and are still
> considered safe.
>
> > >That is they could only be used with preset tools as there was

no

> > >method provided for a setup person to use simple tool touch
> > >techniques to set tool length and work offsets. No

accomodations

> > >were provided to use edge finders for example, to set part

zeros.

> > >
> > >
> > That is an issue and accomodations can be made for zeroing out
> tools.
> > In any event those tools are enclosed for a number off reasons.
>
> Mostly CYA related to lawyer, insurance and darwinism costs.
>
> > >Few production or tool shops left the interlocks in place as it
> was
> > >impossible to use the machines for any but strictly dedicated
> > >production jobs.
> > >
> > >
> > That is the excuse that I hear from a number of people.
>
> It is not an excuse. There was a whole generation of American
> machine tools that were unusable.
>
> >Usually the
> > same people that have war stories about getting injured on the

job.

> >
> > >These machines were a combinaiton of paranoid safety reactions
> and
> > >lousy/inadequate controller design. The legal environment left
> few
> > >options available to US machine builders. This was a major

cause

> of
> > >the failure of the US machine tool industry between 1980 and

1995.

> > >
> > >
> > Fred; I find your post in these forums interesting to read but I
> believe
> > you went of the deep end here. The safety devices where put

in

> place
> > due to real accidents that often maimed the person being
> injured.
>
> Nope.
>
> > All importers have to conform to the same safety regulations as
> the
> > domestic manufactures.
>
> Absolutely not, they have to conform only to the extent that they
> have deep pockets, within the importing country.
>
> >In any event this makes no sense due to the
> > very stringent regulations in europe. Often European

machines

> come
> > in to the country with far more tought put into safety than the
> domestic
> > brands of that era.
>
> Yes and they were pricey as well. Unless you are thinking of East
> European machine tools, which were another story.
>
> Fred Smith - IMService
> http://www.cadcamcadcam.com/hobby