Re: What the hobby CNC industries need!

Knowledge is everything::

To get specefic I have a shoptask (one made in china) love it and am going to automate it. I understand that by the time I am done I will have to spend 1-2k. I am able to upgrade to roller leads so the system will be adaptable to good speed. Other than that I would be cool to put the parameters into a box and have a prefered solution drop out so I can get to the purchase, assembly and running stage.
I would also like to make the machine 4 axis and have been searching for a rotary table to go with the system and connot seem to figure out how to sepc the thing.
Wow!

--- In CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO@yahoogroups.com, "gcode fi (hanermo)" <yahoog@...> wrote:
>
> Partially, ... and your Q/point/request is a good one.
> I was about to write such a book a few years ago ... and work got in the
> way.
>
> There is a difficulty -
> most of this stuff is really, really, easy - in a very specific way, for
> a very specific set of needs/desires.
>
> Change anything in a very small way, and the output changes
> dramatically, often in a non.linear way, and sometimes with surprising
> implications and work/costs related to that.
> In a previous life, I have been a somewhat high-end or big problems IT
> guy for about 15 years... and the situation was exactly the same.
> And the clients never wanted to be told the truth - ie they needed to
> look at their needs and not at the server boxes/hw etc.
> CNC stuff is exactly the same.
>
> With a large amount of experience, a person with several machines
> experience can instantly pick the right answer, all the time. It may not
> be the best answer, but it will almost always be very good, and usually
> for a fair price, as most of us here have a limited budget and have
> learned to be very efficient (not necessarily cheap).
>
> Problems;
> The right choice is a matrix;
> This means everything depends on everything, and unless the users know
> what they want, they cannot get a good, efficient (cheap) solution.
> CNC is relatively expensive.
> You end up sending at least 1000, probably 2000$, for a setup, at a minimum.
> People will read that "I made a milling machine for 100$" ... this is
> simply not true.
>
> Most of that 2k$ is tooling, jigs, instruments etc etc.
> If you are a tool & die maker, machinist, mechanic etc. and you have a
> large set of tools, you can make most anything without buying a lot of
> new stuff. You cannot make it cheaper, in general, (at minimum wage say
> 5$/hr) than buying some of it, but You *can* make almost all of it.
>
> To really have a cnc milling machine you need measuring instruments (DI,
> DTI, mics, calipers), tooling (end mills, holders, collets, draw bars),
> stock (of known quality metal or material like plastics wood),
> hold-down, vices etc. etc. plus a decent spindle, linear system, motors,
> drives, wires etc. etc.
> The size, qty, and capacity of each varies widely.
>
> 2 examples;
>
> 1. CNC systems need drives;
> For a hobby/learning use an integrated stepper driver kit for 3 axis is
> hard to beat. 150$. Will run anything up to a bridgeport full size mill
> decently (bit slow but ok).
> You can make a somewhat less capable one for 80 $ in parts and 20 hours
> work. Worth it - You tell me ?
> For most, it´s not worth-while.
> If you want to make "stuff for sale" your price is likely to go up for
> many reasons- and not just speed. In my opinion, accuracy derived
> through tighter gearing is the most important one- some differences of
> opinion exist;
>
> 2.1 small router
> Some people want to "mill" wood, ie make a cnc router.
> Great, its fairly easy and works great.
> When estimating costs, most people forget about the connectors, cables,
> cable chain carrier, boxes, capacitors, limit switches, estop button,
> secondary 5v (and maybe 12 v) power supply, extra gfi, pulleys, belts,
> etc. etc. etc.
> Some people want to make one, just so it runs ... and some want it to be
> a tool, if even for a hobby.
> This might use flat belt pulleys, skate bearings, 12 v dc voltage, a 50$
> router or dremel.
> Total cost 300-800$.
>
> 2.2
> A hobby tool will maybe cost (wood router, small, gantry design, under 2
> hp, under 2ftx2ft) 500$ more if its "good and usable".
> Acme screws (at minimum), timing belt pulleys, limits and better
> drives/electronics and protection make up the difference cost.
> So total cost 800-1300$.
>
> 2.3
> Add 2000$+ for excellent industrial-quality results (drill jewelry,
> titanium, under .2 mm drills etc etc).
> So total cost 2800$+, at 30k rpm plus, 400 hz spindle, precision collets.
> Multiply by 5 if you want to buy it in a store.
>
> 1. - is a good worth while project, for learning, and making an
> occasional piece like a 3d street sign, etc.
> 2.1 likewise, but much more money, and could make something at need for
> giffts, and some light commercial stuff
> 2.2 likewise, but you might use it to make stuff to sell at 1000-2000$/wk.
> 2.3 same, but more income, more expensive pieces
>
> Without knowing what you audience is, and their expectations, the
> desires, beliefs, and expectations of every group will diverge wildly.
> And unlike most stuff, in this hobby, just a bit "better" or "more"
> capacity, will easily increase your "price" in hours and $$ by 8x.
>
> All of these examples are valid endeavours- but the right path for each
> one is very, very different.
> thus answering questions is often hard, when the questions are generic.
>
>
>
> 556RECON wrote:
> >
> > This is just my 2 cents worth.
> > This is what the home or do it yourself CNC world needs, I think.
> > First a "CNC for the novice" pamphlet or small book. this would answer
> > all the basic questions.
> >
> > I think that there could become a good market for used machines and
> > stepper and servo motors and drivers as the entry level CNCers realize
> > the should have bought the 400 oz in. instead of the 200 oz in. or they
> > want to upgrade to servo motor from steppers. If they are limited in
> > their finances the need to sell the old to buy newer, better or bigger
> > equipment. I also know the used electronic s market is a night mare.
> >
> > There is also a need for a Novice CNC forum where there are not any
> > dumb questions or some forum etiquette where if you do not like the
> > question that someone asks you just erase the post and move on instead
> > of making a snobish comment and chasing some one away from asking
> > questions.
> >
> > At the same time a novice should sit back and read the response for a
> > while and learn.
> >
> > There are 12 different forums I belong to. Most of them I just read and
> > very seldom post to.
> >
> > Just my 2 cents worth.
> >
> > OLD BOB
> >
> >
> >
>