Re: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] Shop Computer

Hi Wayne:
I am a toolmaker who got rather painfully into CAD and CAM somewhat late
in my career.
My background is "making stuff" so my point of view comes from that
perspective.
What I want from CAD and CAM, is a tool to help me in my day to day task of
metalcutting, and here's what I've found:

1) A really good CAD package that's also excellent for CAM is Mastercam.
It is horrendously expensive, but it offers the following benefits that I
found worthwhile:
a) almost every commercial shop uses it if they run CNC, so file transfers
are easy.
b) it has a really simple way of switching between views and construction
planes, so making 3D layouts is far easier than with that awful Autocad.
c) it makes good toolpaths right out of the box, and they are easy to
create, edit, and prove out. I assume you're not into CAM yet, but if you
cut metal for a living...you will be!!!

2) Don't get Autocad or anything cloned from Autocad...It's a dreadful
program to learn.

3) If you are just going to use the computer for layouts and to pick up
dimensions that you don't feel like calculating, then get a simple 2D
drafting package. I started out with a program called Drafixcad that was
easy to learn and I used it a lot for things like determining the tip
diameter of a tapered cutter before I ground the ball end on it, or
determining roll sizes, drawing parts with clearances, laying out waterlines
on separate layers so I could call up only that bit of the drawing etc, etc,
etc.

4) stick with Windows; 95 for preference because:
a) Windows 98 is crashy; far worse than 95, on my machines anyway. Anything
later like 2000 eats up tons of memory and doesn't really do anything useful
that 95 can't do too. Get the latest release of 95; the earlier ones were
buggy. Get used to saving often; nothing makes me want to put a hammer
through the monitor more than losing a morning's work because the box just
crashed. Yes it WILL crash!! Frequently!!!
b) Linux is probably a better Operating System, but there's very little
support out there for guys like us who don't know computers, AND DON'T
CARE!!! Windows has the virtue of being ubiquitous, and there's lots of
published help out there that you can get at London Drugs on Saturday night
if you need to.
You really don't want to be pissing your time away sorting out why your box
won't run when you have work to do. If a Windows box dies, you can get a
new one at the drop of a hat from just about anywhere.

5) Laptops get swiped: don't get one. I know: I had one. It got swiped. I
got another one. It got swiped.
I got a desktop; I still have it.

6) Get lots of RAM; you'll need it!!

7) Get a decent graphics card; you'll need it too. And get at least a 19"
monitor.

8) Dump all the games off your machine as soon as you get it, and don't hook
up the internet; you'll find your fellow employees on the porn sites all the
time if you ignore this advice.

9) I got some parts catalogs on CD's that I dumped onto the hardrive; they
have been useful when I needed to know stuff like the OD and width of a
bearing for example.

10) I went to fair trouble to learn a spreadsheet program (Excel) well
enough to cobble up some spreadsheets to tell me stuff that I thought I'd
use all the time, things like thread pitch conversions, material cost
estimating information etc. I found that I hardly ever use them, and they're
never what I really need anyway, so I wasted my time on them.

11) The CD version of Machinery's handbook is worth having on your machine.
It has a cross indexing function that's very useful. Don't toss your printed
version though; if you're on the phone and looking for a bit of info, the
book is often easier. You can also drag the book to your workstation, and
you don't have to wait for it to boot up to get the diameter for a 1/4 NC
counterbore.

12) You NEED a printer. Everytime you want to remember a string of figures
that you just laid out, you will be happy that you don't have to trot back
to the monitor to remember if it was 1.203 or 1.302 or whatever.

13) The short version (now that you have had to wade through all this) if
you are a "cut it with the torch and weld up the gap" kind of guy, a
computer will not be of much use to you.
If you regularly use your calculator on the job to figure out trig stuff,
and make lots of sketches, the computer will help you a lot.
If you do any amount of precision machining, you NEED to get into CNC if you
want to stay employable.

My two cents' worth:
Cheers

Marcus

-----Original Message-----
From: wbbengtsson@...
<wbbengtsson@...>
To: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO@yahoogroups.com <CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Sunday, September 23, 2001 6:46 AM
Subject: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] Shop Computer

>Hello All:
>I recently asked the following questions on Usenet, and got some
>reasonably good feedback. I thought I would try the same again here.
>My apologies to anyone who reads the following for the second time.
>
>Further to the original inquiry, I am a Boilermaker, building stuff
>that usualy has some subsequent heat treatment and machining. I would
>NOT be accessing original drawings, but might be doing some simple
>CAD layouts. I am not paid to draft, but there are times when it is
>easier to manipulate pixels, as opposed to manipulating multi tonne
>bits of steel ,to see if the bits will fit.
>
>
>
>-----begin quoted message------
>I am thinking of getting a cheap(obsolete) computer to press into
>service as
>a shop computer.
>
>I would be interesting any of the following feedback:
>
> 1. What programs would you put on a shop computer? I plan on putting
>at
>least one inexpensive Cad program on. Which CAD program I haven't
>settled on
>yet. A spreadsheet and some kind of text editor as well, along with a
>units
>conversion program.
>
>(NOTE: I don't do CNC. This post was cossposted to a.m.cnc in the
>hopes that
>there would be more users with shop computer experience)
>
>1a: What reference material would you make available (materials
>databases,
>quality standards, etc) and how would you "control" it to make sure
>it is as
>correct as it needs to be?
>
>2. Laptop VS. Desktop? Also, How old can this be and still be
>considered
>useful?
>
>3. Operating system? Not wanting to start any more religious wars,
>but if
>Linux has enough shop type software available, I would consider it.
>Currently, I don't do Linux.
>
>3. Is paper output "necessary?". I am thinking that if it needs to be
>printed, it needs to be done on a "regular" set-up, not the shop
>P.O.S.
>
>4. Is a "shop computer" more of a distraction than an aid to
>productivity?
>
>Any other feedback or comments welcome. I would be especially
>interested in
>anyone's personal experiences. What I am looking for is a way to
>increase my
>personal productivity on the shop floor. I _don't_ need another
>distraction,
>if there is no corresponding benefit to be had.
>
>OTOH, I have had to do full size "Layouts" for items that would have
>taken
>1/4 the time with any decent low end CAD system.
>
>Can you see the day when there is a drawer in your toolbox the right
>size
>for a laptop, just as there is now for Machinery's Handbook? How
>about a
>wireless LAN to harass the boss with emails (WHERE'S THE STEEL YOU
>PROMISED, etc.)
>
>Regards
>Wayne Bengtsson