Re: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] 5-Axis help

Hi Isaiah:
I agree with Peter on a number of issues that he has raised.
I do industrial design for a living and I cut a LOT of prototypes.
Some of them are wildly complex too.
I do it all on 3 axis machining centers and I have NEVER, not even once
said: "gee I wish I had 5 axis for this job!"
One of my buddies has a pattern shop and drives a 5 axis machine.
I don't even want to think about the cursing and swearing that comes
regularly out of his shop, not to mention the sticker shock when he got his
system up and running.
Guess how he does 99.999% of his work....You bet, 3 axis!!!
5 axis is great when you are milling automotive dies or routing window
openings in fiberglass boats, but it's of surprisingly limited utility for
most work and that includes fancy surfacing.
Layer it up in slabs, and it is amazing what you can make to an excellent
standard of manufacture without all the pain of programming in 5 axis.
Just my two cents worth.
Cheers

Marcus

----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter" <prenolds@...>
To: <CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 2002 6:25 AM
Subject: Re: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] 5-Axis help


> No offence, Isaiah, but I did have a good chuckle when I got to the last
> couple of lines of your post! Don't worry, as the others have suggested
> we can definitely help you out, but you will reap huge rewards for your
> final successful outcome if you invest a tiny bit more time in research...
>
> Read the FAQ's at
>
> http://www.ktmarketing.com/faq.html
>
> and follow the links that are posted as you need to familiarise yourself
> with more machine designs and driver designs. Also, you need to
> consider walking before you run. As you evolve your machine design,
> consider designing for three axis but leave provision for additional
> degrees of freedom in a subsequent upgrade of your machine. Many here
> have started with three axes and and added a 4th as budget and
> experience permit. It isn't just having a 5 axis machine at your
> disposal, it is knowing how to use it without crashing it... Also, many
> complex parts are now being made (prototyped) with solid lithographic
> printing technologies. Realistically, a 5th axis is rarely required for
> most designs - you can always make your design in sections and assemble
> etc.
>
> Your intended work envelope is very ambitious for a first timer. You
> will save time and money if you start smaller - remember you can always
> scale your designs later. Also, what do you intend to machine? Wood?
> Foam? Stainless steel? Huge differences in machine stiffness
> requirements. What tolerances do you want to maintain? .001"? .010"?
> How fast do you want the tool head to move? Faster = more $$$ Lots of
> things to consider!
>
> If you are studying ID you likely have access to a solid modelling
> package? What is it? Also, you will learn that good design includes
> such things as "design for manufacture" which means that while anything
> can be made, taking into account good DFM practices, it can probably be
> made (and serviced and repaired) easier, cheaper with minimal loss of
> appearence or features. i.e. you could design for the part to be made
> on a 3 axis mill - in sections. The final design would probably be
> injection moulded anyway and that introduces a whole bunch of additional
> design abnd manufacture issues. You also will learn about ergononomics
> etc. Making things look cool and be easy to use is always an exciting
> challenge. Wait till you put your design in the hands of users and see
> how they mis-use and abuse your intended design. It will blow your mind
> - but remember, users will also give you the best feedback about what
> they like and don't like and your design will be better for the input.
>
> One thing that will reap huge benefits to you is in building your own
> CNC mill, and then trying to make stuff, you will learn about all of the
> practical challenges and compromises that exist when the "tool hits the
> metal"... The reason that 5 axis machines are relatively rare is that
> not only is the machine more complex, but the CAM software that
> translates the solid model into 5 axis movement is always machine
> specific and VERY expensive as there are so many variables to take into
> account.
>
> Read, read, read and ask lots of questions. Good luck.
>
> Cheers, Peter
>
>
>
> isaiah_bellais wrote:
>
> >Hello all. I am interested in building a 5 axis router mill like the
> >one here: http://www.ctek-on-line.com/5axisgm2.html. Of course the
> >one I have in mind is much smaller.
> >A little back ground; I am a beginner industrial designer and know
> >that some of the big companies have their prototypes built in these
> >big machines. Most of the work that I do can easily be done on a
> >smaller 5-axis gantry mill. I would like to mill something in a 2'-
> >3' cube area. Has anyone attempted to build anything like this? Is
> >it feasible? I'm a bit lucky that I can get an aluminum frame built
> >for next to nothing but my main problem is the drivers to run the
> >stepper motors. The 5-axis drivers are considerably more expensive
> >than their 3-axis siblings. Why? I have no knowledge of electronics
> >so I can't design a driver myself. I've noticed tons of home built 3-
> >axis drivers on the web but can't seem to find any 5-axis drivers.
> >Has anyone on this discussion board built a driver for this type of
> >application? If so, are you willing to help a struggling student? :)
> >Am I in over my head? Although I'm not very knowledgeable with
> >electronics, I am very technical and don't get discouraged easily. I
> >have been researching this for about two weeks now and am hung on
> >this one problem. Please help!
> >
> >Cheers!
> >Isaiah Bellais
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Addresses:
> >FAQ: http://www.ktmarketing.com/faq.html
> >FILES: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO/files/
> >
> >OFF Topic POSTS: General Machining
> >If you wish to post on unlimited OT subjects goto:
aol://5863:126/rec.crafts.metalworking or go thru Google.com to reach it if
you have trouble.
> >http://www.metalworking.com/news_servers.html
> >
> >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/jobshophomeshop I consider this as a
sister site to the CCED group, as many of the same members are there, for OT
subjects, that are not allowed on the CCED list.
> >
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>
> Addresses:
> FAQ: http://www.ktmarketing.com/faq.html
> FILES: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO/files/
>
> OFF Topic POSTS: General Machining
> If you wish to post on unlimited OT subjects goto:
aol://5863:126/rec.crafts.metalworking or go thru Google.com to reach it if
you have trouble.
> http://www.metalworking.com/news_servers.html
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/jobshophomeshop I consider this as a
sister site to the CCED group, as many of the same members are there, for OT
subjects, that are not allowed on the CCED list.
>
> NOTICE: ALL POSTINGS TO THIS GROUP BECOME PUBLIC DOMAIN BY POSTING THEM.
DON'T POST IF YOU CAN NOT ACCEPT THIS.....NO EXCEPTIONS........
>
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> List Owner
>
>
>
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