Re: Hobby vs commercial, was RE: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] Re: Flashcut

I don't think it will be that easy to draw dark black lines between
hobby and commercial.....But you do bring out some good thoughts.
I'm sorry I said Dos is dead.. I meant it is dying :-), you revealed
that correctly when you said:

I'm seeing the hobby market moving to a
Windows based front end with some kind of a real-time back end on a
different processor to actually drive the machine.

This is exactly where FC has been for years and some of us were lucky enough to get to use it all this while. No floppie transfers, no archaic key commands, no "special configs", nada. You may feel it nuts to get your e-mail on a controller... but, really, its ideal for a beginner with a Sherline!

I guess that is why I am so fond of FC... I gave up supporting Dos controls many many moons ago.

My case is not typical, I was able to retro quite a few controllers as they were available in the late 90's, while someone else paid for it! Excellent ! Engravers, Plasma, Gas Torch, Routers, mills..... I found out what we liked and what we didn't and why. Even then we had a few unused controls sitting in boxes. I know one employee bought a complete Ah-ha for $50. I should a bought that and stuck it on E-bay. I wouldn't use it.

CNC IS my hobby, I have a day job and I do not plan on quitting anytime soon. The ONLY way to have a hobby with CNC is to talk to your accountant for how tax issues affect you, and make sure you Do have a business name and tax number. This way you are 100% legal to accept payment for any work you do and benefit from placing your purchases against income with the tax schedule. I don't know about you, but with my "hobby", I find it very hard to spend less than I make :-) So come tax time, I do pretty good. Hey, THEY make the laws.. I just follow them. I found out there is NO law persecuting you for not making enough money. A smart person who loves this hobby would try to make it pay for itself, or you are independantly wealthy. Wish I was the latter.

Still, one needs to get some income from it. In my case, I sell the plans to my current machine and struggle from lack of time to finish others I have started. Boy, if you understood how nice the tax laws worked for "prototype" and "development" costs :-) Some of that has changed, but it is still lucrative. My plan sales have made me very happy, and those who know, I have been there since 1999 to help in any way possible. But,I also run my Router but only very selectively only for very good money. (except for the friends type stuff) It Pays well when I take a job and was something I learned from an old boss. His claim was "why do WE want the cruddy jobs for cheap?" Leave that for the other guys. Always do a job as immaculate as possible, and preferably do it for the upper class people. Less work, same money". Following a similar plan, THAT, is what makes my hobby good.

So, I am in business with my Hobby, But never felt commercial or wealthy. Am willing from experience to know that sometimes one might be better off just saving and getting the right thing rather than trying 5 wrong things or 5 methods they may not get to work. Example: I recall buying at least 5 used refrigerators that puked prematurely in my juvenile years, but only One new one, once I got smart! The lesson is the 5 used ones could have bought a new one and my back would feel better today. That new one is still going.

All the same, I love kits, but that's NOW that I understand a lot more. So many today are pretty wet behind the ears. Most are candidates for something that works on their first pass. That saves a lot of troubleshooting phone calls which raises end cost.

And, I also love to fiddle with adjustments -- now.
Because most of my experience with some of the possible hobby offerings is starting to get a little old, now I want to fiddle with every low budget control out there on the same platform and machine in order to make Real Comparisons. Who knows what I might be supporting next ??

Although some may feel personalities might be rigidly OT.. I feel not. Jerry is right. A little background about everyone here sure would help others to get a feel for a person and maybe where his opinions came from.

Todays Controller race is going to all be in "continuous contouring". Who is going to have the best full multiaxis motion at the reachable (whatever that is) price level.

be good,
Chris L

Carol & Jerry Jankura wrote:

>It's interesting that this topic is slowly (or not so slowly) attempting to
>define the difference between a commercial or hobby application.
>
>As I see it -
>
>Commercial Application
>1. Generally, the user has little time to develop and test
>2. Generally, the user is willing to spend the bucks for a turn-key
>application
>3. Generally, the machines in question are 'full sized' as opposed to
>desktop
>4. Generally, the systems are purchased with fifty-cent dollars (tax
>advantages) at no sales tax, so asking price isn't actual price.
>5. Generally, the user doesn't want to be bothered putting kits together.
>6. Generally, the user wants support that most part-time vendors are unable
>to supply
>7. Generally, the user wants a 'set it and forget it' system. Once working,
>it's not changed!
>
>Hobby Application
>1. Often, Computers & CNC become as large a hobby as making parts
>2. Often, the user has more time than money
>3. Often, there's no business income to offset for tax purposes.
>4. A minority of this class have large enough incomes to afford the
>commercially oriented systems
>5. Generally, the user is willing to live with slower internet based support
>as a tradeoff for lower overall costs.
>6. Trying out several different G-Code interpreters often becomes part of
>the hobby.
>
>Before you ask questions of the group, it may be useful to stop and ask
>yourself where YOU fit into the equation, and share this information so our
>recommendations are applicable to your situation. Also, tell us what your
>experience level is. My EE and computer background made adding CNC to my
>Sherline tools a snap. It might not have been quite as easy had I a
>different background.
>
>When I was employed, I routinely used Computmotor products that cost about
>$10,000 for three axes. These systems were for projects that had to run in
>an 24x7 environment. Now retired, I'm looking at the other end of the scale
>and am using Camtronics kits and am enjoying tinkering with the software.
>
>And, remember, DOS is not dead and Windows is not junk. Both have their
>place, as does Linux. Right now, I'm seeing the hobby market moving to a
>Windows based front end with some kind of a real-time back end on a
>different processor to actually drive the machine. I'd not be surprised to
>see DOS sitting on that machine, possibly in a ROM. And, once these
>configurations become 'normal,' I'd expect to see someone start integrating
>the CRT back into the controller, but this time, the computer will be
>optimized for the factory and not for the office as the ones we're all using
>now are.
>
>A final thought... Please note that I've used 'generally' and 'often' in the
>descriptions, as there are exceptions to any category.
>
>-- Jerry
>
>
>|hi
>|
>|true, but i need a stable, "commercial", and supported system today...
>|for myself, as a hobbyist, i would definitely use m1, m5, ya, dak or
>|whatever.
>
>
>
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