RE: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] servo motors drives (Or Steppers?)

There are still lots of analogue cards out there still being made, which are
commercial size for commercial machines and the prices are not that
frightening, You could look at www.servodynamics.com. I feel the response
and dynamic range from a servo is much better than a stepper, though some of
Mariss's recent developments may start to reduce that gap. Rutex and
CNCTeknix are in the redesign phase, as is Toro of Granite devices to get
more power, I expect Toro will get there first.



Dr. Mark Vaughan Ph'D. B.Eng. M0VAU

Managing Director

Vaughan Industries Ltd, reg in UK no 2561068

Water Care Technology Ltd, reg in UK no 4129351

Addr Unit3, Sydney House, Blackwater, Truro, Cornwall, TR4 8HH, UK.
Phone/Fax 44 1872 561288

RSGB DRM111(Cornwall)

_____

From: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Polaraligned
Sent: 07 July 2007 02:49
To: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] servo motors drives (Or Steppers?)

>
> Hope that helps, for a medium big DC servo I would go for Granite

Devices,

> for a big DC servo it has to be commercial analogue control cards and
> pixies. To the hobby boys our motors are big, to the commercial analogue
> cards they are everyday run of the mill. Big servos to these guy's is
> absolutely massive.
>
>
>
> Regs Mark

Thanks for the input Mark. The granite cards look good but at 12.5A
max, I think they are too light for my servos. 20A would be a lot
more comfortable to me. Sad Rutex and Tek are having big problems.

In light of the fact that there is no economical solution that
performs well, how about steppers?
The machine originally had NEMA 42 steppers and performed well with
them. With Mariss making these new stepper drives maybe it is worth
looking into. Steppers perform best at low RPM which is where you
are looking for the most power out of them.
I don't really buy the lost step argument because servos are not
a closed loop back to the controller.
Gecko servo drives do work well with the exception of the following
error. If you could increase it, it would perform much better on
heavy iron.
I don't know. Just thinking. Maybe steppers are a better idea for
heavy iron.

Thanks Mark,
Scott

BTW:

Here is a copy of Mariss's argument for steppers on iron vs. servos:

The picture is not quite as rosy as painted in favor of DC brush-type
PM servo motors. Consider this comparison between a NEMA-34 stepper
and a NEMA-23 servo motor:

1) Servo: 6,000 RPM rated load speed, 60 in-oz continuous rated
torque. The max continuous torque is just that; no to be exceeded.
This means you have 50 in-oz available be it at 1 RPM or 6,000 RPM.
Power output is 266 Watts.

2) Stepper: 600 in-oz low-speed torque falling to 50 in-oz at 3,600
RPM. Power output is also 133 Watts.

A lot of CNC applications have two distinct operating modes, low
feedrates when work is being done and rapids which reposition the
machine at no work load. Let's assume a 5 TPI screw is involved, 30
IPM is the work feedrate, 600 in-oz is the work load and 100 in-oz is
needed for rapids.

1) Step motor: The step motor has 600 in-oz of low-speed torque, so
it connects to the screw 1:1. The motor's torque is constant from 0
to 300 RPM (300 RPM = 1351 * 133W / 600 in-oz), past that, it falls
off as the inverse of speed. 300 RPM is 60 IPM on a 5 TPI screw
though.

The maximum speed for rapids is 320 IPM.

2) Servo motor: The servo motor has 60 in-oz of max continuous
torque. It requires a 10:1 reduction gearing to get 600 in-oz on the
screw. The motor is turning 1,500 RPM at 30 IPM.

1,500 RPM is 25% of 6,000 RPM. This means 120 IPM is the maximum work
feedrate. The rapids IPM is only 145 IPM (See note at the end for the
boring math).
---------------------------------

So what happened? How come a stepper having only 1/2 the servo's
power (133W vs 266W) gets 320 IPM rapids to the servo's 145 IPM?

The difference is the motors' different speed-power curves. The
stepper has a flat 133W power vs speed curve past 300 RPM while the
servo power peaks over a narrow speed range. Here's a comparison:

0000-RPM 000W 000W *no RPM, zero power for both
0100-RPM 044W 004W
0200-RPM 088W 009W
0300-RPM 133W 013W *stepper reaches full power
0600-RPM 133W 026W
1000-RPM 127W 039W
1600-RPM 118W 059W *stepper torque = 100 in-oz (max rapid)
2000-RPM 112W 089W
3000-RPM 098W 133W
4000-RPM ---W 178W *stepper torque too small to be useful
5000-RPM ---W 222W
6000-RPM ---W 266W *servo reaches full power
6500-RPM ---W 192W *servo power begins to drop
7000-RPM ---W 096W
7250-RPM ---W 048W *servo/10:1 reduction torque = 100 in-oz
7500-RPM ---W 000W *servo no-load speed, zero power
-------------------------------

A good way of looking at a stepper is to imagine a 133W motor turning
at constant speed connected to an infinitely variable gearbox. Your
step pulse rate determines the reduction ratio.

This type of an application favors step motors. The load is either
high-torque low-speed or high-speed low-torque.

About servos in general: A servo is any system that uses negative
closed-loop feedback. A DC servo motor is just a DC motor without
feedback. A step motor becomes a "50-pole AC servo motor" with
feedback.

Mariss
----------------------

Math Note (the boring stuff):

Assume the 60 in-oz rated servo motor will have a peak torque of 300
in-oz (5:1 ratio).

1) Rated RPM = (1 - Rated torque / Peak torque) * No-Load RPM
2) Torque available = (1 - RPM / No-load RPM) * Peak torque
3) Power (Watts) = in-oz * RPM / 1351

A step motor's corner speed is where torque begins to drop. This is
approximately:

1) RPM = 0.191 * V / I * L

Where V = power supply voltage, I = phase current and L = motor
winding inductance.

Motor power increases proportionally with speed up to the corner RPM
of the motor. Past that motor power has a slight negative slope with
speed:

2) Power (Watts) = ((V * Holding torque in-oz) / (7,073 * I * L)) -
Detent torque in-oz * RPM / 1351

Detent torque is always a loss in a step motor. It subtracts power
from the motor at a rate proportional to speed. This is accounted in
the "-" term in eq. (2).





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