Re: Vectorcam, bobcad, rhino3D, which one??

John, I don't want to enter the dispute about the stand alone CAM
packages, I agree, there're a few of them and the majority of them
are very expensive.
But about the 3D side, I want to make one thing clear: CAD doesn't
necessairly mean 3D and viceversa. Drawing exchange doesn't mean
surface exchange and so far.

C.A.D. means Computer Aided Design (Drafting), usually mechanical or
architectural drawing, modeling and detailing
A more recent definition like C.A.S. (Computer Aided Styling) and
C.A.I.(D). (computer Aided Industrial Design) label those
applications - like Rhino, Alias Studio, SolidThinking, Form-Z and
few others - which are specialized in 3D modeling. These softwares
usually support specialized features for advanced surface modeling
and evaluating which are not available on general purpose or
mechanical CADs.

Some other high-end applications like ICEM and Imageware Surfacer are
also used in the automotive industry for C.A.S. but they actually are
Reverse Engineering applications.

Rhino isn't a CAD package (ask McNeel if they would consider it a s a
CAD), it's a 3D surface modeler (with oustanding capabilities at a
very low price).

DXF isn't a format you would rely for exchanging consistent 3D
surfaces, IGES, STEP and other more exotic formats are better suited
for this.

If I was Mr. Tauseef and I had no access to the packages I actually
have, but - at the same time - I really needed serious 3D work, I
would consider a professional package like Rhino and would look
around me for a CAM able to read any IGES, STEP or even a STL file.

I remember a japanese site with lot of impressive examples of jobs
done that way on small personal CNC mills, modeled in Rhino (mostly)
and processed into some inexpensive CAM software.

In 3D, the quality of the source is the most important step: if you
don't have a reliable surface to work, it doesn't matter which CAM
package will process it.
STL exchange format could be a good compromise, it gives you the
choice for resolution/speed/time/precision you can afford and let you
use one of the affordable packages available today. Don't forget - it
has been developed for the high precision Stereolitography
prototyping process.

Finally, about those specific CNC operations and cycles you
mentioned, I suppose you could machine your free-form surfaces the
way I suggested and then, import those mechanical features into
another apllication which better handles them.
I feel this is a quite common procedure (at least I could see it
being applied several times in professional machining).

here I enclose some links, maybe they're well known, maybe not ...
http://www.rfactory.co.jp/EG/index.htm
http://www.lab3d.com/setsum-e.html
http://www.millit.com/index.html

I hope my words are understandable, this isn't my first language and
I apologize for the mistakes.

Paolo Velcich
industrial designer

--- In CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO@y..., machines@n... wrote:
> On Fri May 11, 2001 5:58 am
> Tauseef broached the subject of CAD/CAM with this enquiry.
>
> >Subject: Vectorcam, bobcad, rhino3D, which one??
> >I have been looking into some of the 3D CAD/CAM programs and would
> >like to know what you guys think. Mainly I am looking into buying
> >this year and am trying out some of the demos for now. Any hints,
> any
> >likes/ dislikes? Mainly the program would be used for fun and
maybe
> >someday to make "real parts." I have a sherline mill (using
CNCPro)
> >with a 4th axis but find 4D programs to be very expensive. What ya
> >guys think about vectorcam compared to rhino3D or bobcad? None of
> >them good? what would you buy? I would like to stay around the
$500-
> >$1000 range (I know there is mastercam, surfcam, gibbs etc). If
you
> >don't feel comfie telling "the truth" here please feel free to e-
> mail
> >me personally..I promise I won't tell :)
> >thanks!!
>
> Firstly can we clear a few misconceptions up as regards CAD/CAM
> A lot of the time various programs get lumped under the heading of
> CAD/CAM but are described wrongly.
>
> First of all CAD [ Computer Aided Drawing ] this covers programs
such
> as Autocad, Turbocad, Rhino, Solid edge, Cadkey and a host of
others.
> What a CAD program does is to draw the part very accurately and
saves
> it to a given format that is usually unique to that program.
> Virtually all CAD programs are also able to save as DXF files. This
> stands for Drawing eXchange Files and was brought out so that
> drawings could be exchanged between programs. More of this later. A
> CAD package on it's own isn't a lot of use unless your part is that
> simple you can take co-ordinates and program it my hand
>
> Secondly CAM, [ Computer Aided Manufacture ], funnily enough there
> are very few stand alone CAM packages out there. There are a couple
> that work inside of Autocad, Solid Works and Cadkey. These don't
> really fall into the CAD/CAM package list as they are 3rd party add
> ons. Lower priced CAM packages include ACE convertor from Yeager
and
> Deskcam. These are limited as they take 2D DXF files and you have
to
> edit the depth into them.
> Millwizard and STLWorks also fall into the stand alone CAM package
> but these will handle tool depth.
>
> Lastly complete CAD/CAM packages. There are many of these. Bobcad,
> Vector, Dolphin, Mastercam, Feature Cam, Gibbs, Capsmill, Alphacam
> and many more. What these do is to take the drawing from the CAD
side
> and pass the information over to the CAM side so that it can
generate
> a tool path using either a post processor or a configuration file
set
> up for the machine it's to be used on.
> Almost all of these programs are also able to import DXF files in
so
> that you can process files drawn by others.
>
> Now to try to answer tauseef's request.
> He asks for 3D CAD/CAM programs and mentions a comparison between
> Bobcad, Vector and Rhino. From the information given above you can
> only compare Bobcad and Vector as Rhino is a CAD only program.
> Next thing you need to consider is what are you going to make, in
> this case Tauseef doesn't cover this.
> Some posters have suggested Rhino and Millwizard or Ampari and STL
> works or combinations of the above.
> Fine these fall into the 3D realm but they are only good for doing
> surface work such as jewelry, signs and profile shapes. They cannot
> do drilling routines or follow canned cycles.
> He specifically asks for 3D so this puts programs like Dolphin and
> Capsmill out as although they are very good programs they are only
2
> 1/2D programs.
> Now we get onto the 3D programs. Mastercam, Gibbs, Alphacam, are
all
> high dollar programs and most also have a yearly maintenance fee in
> the $1,000 range. So from a hobby point of view that puts these way
> out of the running.
> From a purely affordable view this leaves Bobcad and Vector. Price
> wise they are roughly equal but Fred Smith of Imserv who post on
this
> list does offer a good discount to list users. Feature wise Vector
> has far more features than Bobcad. Support is very good, again
> handled by Fred Smith. Bobcads support is virtually non existent,
you
> only need to do a web search to discover this.
> So to answer all the questions above it's got to work out in
Vectors
> favour.
>
> This probably has got to look like an advert for Fred and Vector
but
> I can assure people that I have no connection with Fred Smith and
I'm
> not even a customer. I don't do any 3D work but if I had a need to
I
> wouldn't hesitate to buy the program.
>
> John Stevenson
> Nottingham, England.
> [ hopefully Yahoo won't loose this one ]