Re: Vectorcam, bobcad, rhino3D, which one??

--- In CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO@y..., "tauseef" <alieron@h...> wrote:
> Hey guys (John, Tom, and Paolo + any others),
> I am so sorry that I did not respond to your letters before! I was
> just doing a search on these CAD/CAM packages again and ran across
> these posts!! Sorry! To answer your question of what I plan to make
I
> would say things like 3D name plates, parts for my radio control
> helicopters, car and planes (these would really be more 2 1/2D),
some
> jewelery, possibly "artwork," business card holder for my brothers
> and sisters and other silly things like that. Answering that
question
> is really pretty hard (even though I know its very important). I
love
> this machining stuff and the 3D CAD/CAM package would really be more
> of a luxuary as I don't know how much 3Ding I truely would be do
> considering the time involved in drawing out a 3D object. Machining
> is also a hobby for me and not my profession so I don't need the
real
> high-end stuff. I downloaded Rhino3D today and must say for the 30
> min I have spent on it, I am impressed! Its seems very straight
> forward. I also have the demo of vectorcam but find it quite hard to
> work with. Millwizard is also very impressive and I can't even
> imagine how wonderful the higher end CAM packages must be! Would a
> combination of TurboCAD and Millwizard be a consideration?
> thank you guys again for your input and I hope to answer much
quicker
> next time :)
> tauseef
>
> --- In CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO@y..., machines@n... wrote:
> > --- In CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO@y..., pavel59@y... wrote:
> > > John, I don't want to enter the dispute about the stand alone
CAM
> > > packages, I agree, there're a few of them and the majority of
> them
> > > are very expensive.
> > > But about the 3D side, I want to make one thing clear: CAD
> doesn't
> > > necessairly mean 3D and viceversa. Drawing exchange doesn't mean
> > > surface exchange and so far.
> > >
> > > C.A.D. means Computer Aided Design (Drafting), usually
mechanical
> > or
> > > architectural drawing, modeling and detailing
> > > A more recent definition like C.A.S. (Computer Aided Styling)
and
> > > C.A.I.(D). (computer Aided Industrial Design) label those
> > > applications - like Rhino, Alias Studio, SolidThinking, Form-Z
> and
> > > few others - which are specialized in 3D modeling. These
> softwares
> > > usually support specialized features for advanced surface
> modeling
> > > and evaluating which are not available on general purpose or
> > > mechanical CADs.
> > >
> > > Some other high-end applications like ICEM and Imageware
Surfacer
> > are
> > > also used in the automotive industry for C.A.S. but they
actually
> > are
> > > Reverse Engineering applications.
> > >
> > > Rhino isn't a CAD package (ask McNeel if they would consider it
a
> s
> > a
> > > CAD), it's a 3D surface modeler (with oustanding capabilities at
> a
> > > very low price).
> > >
> > > DXF isn't a format you would rely for exchanging consistent 3D
> > > surfaces, IGES, STEP and other more exotic formats are better
> > suited
> > > for this.
> > >
> > > If I was Mr. Tauseef and I had no access to the packages I
> actually
> > > have, but - at the same time - I really needed serious 3D work,
I
> > > would consider a professional package like Rhino and would look
> > > around me for a CAM able to read any IGES, STEP or even a STL
> file.
> > >
> > > I remember a japanese site with lot of impressive examples of
> jobs
> > > done that way on small personal CNC mills, modeled in Rhino
> > (mostly)
> > > and processed into some inexpensive CAM software.
> > >
> > > In 3D, the quality of the source is the most important step: if
> you
> > > don't have a reliable surface to work, it doesn't matter which
> CAM
> > > package will process it.
> > > STL exchange format could be a good compromise, it gives you the
> > > choice for resolution/speed/time/precision you can afford and
let
> > you
> > > use one of the affordable packages available today. Don't forget
-
>
> > it
> > > has been developed for the high precision Stereolitography
> > > prototyping process.
> > >
> > > Finally, about those specific CNC operations and cycles you
> > > mentioned, I suppose you could machine your free-form surfaces
> the
> > > way I suggested and then, import those mechanical features into
> > > another apllication which better handles them.
> > > I feel this is a quite common procedure (at least I could see it
> > > being applied several times in professional machining).
> > >
> > > I hope my words are understandable, this isn't my first language
> > and
> > > I apologize for the mistakes.
> > >
> > > Paolo Velcich
> > > industrial designer
> >
> > Paolo,
> > Thank you for the reply and I had no trouble understanding it.
Your
> > english is 10,000 times beter than my Italian?
> > You are not entering into a dispute at all, that's what discussion
> > groups are for. I've left your post virtually intact and I'll try
> to
> > cover the replies in order.
> > Firstly though I don't want to appear to be knocking Rhino I am
> only
> > trying to give general answers.
> > I was lead to believe that DXF files can give 3D information
hence
> > the DXF3D tag on some file names, Millwizard is one I believe.
> > Obviously not all prgrams can ouput these files.
> > Your remarks about CAS, CAI[D] and ICEM whilst being very valid
are
> > really out of the scope of this list which is very hobby based.
> > The use of Rhino and a STL based cam system will give very good
> > results as you point out but this combination will then deplete Mr
> > Tauseef's funds leaving him nothing left to buy another package to
> > handle the other milling cycles, most of which will cost the same
> as
> > his initial purchase. So instead of paying $800 which I think was
> the
> > mentioned figure he will finish up paying twice that for four
> > programs, duplicating in cases what he needs.
> > You mention that in professional machining this is done but I've
> als
> > seen where a company has paid $15,000 for a CAD/CAM package,
> realised
> > that it doesn't suit them and are looking for another one.
> > I don't think anyone on this list falls within this scope.
> > We are all stabbing in the dark because Mr Tauseef laid down a
very
> > open ended question. Until we get clarification on his proposed
> uses
> > we will be split between those offering Rhino / STL Works /
> > Millwizard / Rams/ Ampari and what I call full blown 3D CAD/CAM
> >
> > Come on Tauseef we are fighting on your behalf and you aren't
> holding
> > your end up <BG>
> >
> > John Stevenson
> > Nottingham, England.