Re: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] Re: BobCAD/CAM v.s. Dolphin CAD/CAM

John Stevenson wrote:

> (snip) We say move it into the CAM system but actually it's still the CAD side
> we
> move it into. You know the one we just said we didn't like to use <g>
> Then we have to organise the toolpath - Why??? Because of the way it's been
> drawn. Tool paths have to be sequential, one line leading on to the next
> line or arc in the correct order and direction.

Correct... I really meant it that way. That can be one advantage I guess with a
Combo program is that you can "Fix" anything you forgot !

>
> This is something I've never understood with Bobcad or Vector.
> If you have a box with four radiused corners and you select a start point
> and tell the program it's closed then it should goround and find the last
> point no matter which way the entities have been drawn. On a simple closed
> entity such as this there is no alternative so why the hassle.
> Dolphin works this way, that's why I like it so much it's simple to use.
> Somewhere in the menus is a button that shows to direction of the
> toolpaths.
> I don't know where it is as I've never used it. Don't need it and it only
> clutters the screen up.

Agree Agree ! First thing I would do with Vector is put in that little button to
"Ditch" those silly direction arrows. Better yet, allow me the user, to put my
part drawing on layer where the program does not have to concern itself with
rendering those arrows at all. It should be an option to see those arrows in the
toolpath IF you want to. Often times like you.... I dont Care ! If the program is
doing its job..... The directions should be correct.

Everyone should re-read your above statement about "selecting a Start Stop Point".
If you have messed with Surfcam, they use the same technique you describe. You CAN
get carried away identifying orders of paths but you don't HAVE to. Surfcams
Toolpath creation and toolpath storage, toolpath modification and "post"
techniques are pretty good. However, their drawing technique is ancient. Slow too.
Did I mention it is slow... oh ya I did.

(drawing in surfcam... A simple line: >draw< "click" >line< "click" >horizontal<
"click" >point< "click" >endpoint< "click"..... sheez ! Its ONE SIMPLE LINE !!
"Clickclickclickclickclick......I'll click myself to death before I could draw the
most basic of drawing !)

>
> Same with tool offsets. Why do you have to draw the offset path??
> If you tell the program you have a 1/2" cutter then the outside path to
> produce a 2" square will be 2" + 1/4" = 1/4" = 2 1/2"
> Dolphin understands this that's why it asks for a tool size.

I still have done only the most basic operations possible in Vector. Time, where
does it go?
But I know exactly what you mean. I have used the old Bob v16. Drawing an offset
so you could then pocket ? What a bad technique. I have noticed that Vector is
generally better, however, It seems that the relationship between those two
companies is visible. Some routines still seem to force you to offset by your tool
radius first (clean circle) before pocketing. Pain in Butt. At least it seems that
most other pocket routines allow for the automatic offset. I have yet to play with
a simple contour but I get the feeling I have to "draw" it first. This in my
opinion, "Mixes" part drawing entities with Toolpaths. Not good. please
Vector..... Study how the free surfcam operates and head in that direction.

Notice: This is not to take anything away from Vector ! Vector, for the
money....Vector for the support, Most importantly to me, Vector, for the fact that
the developers seem to keep moving routinely forward with good improvements, makes
it a very good program. Just as you enjoy the close relationship of a software
developer who actually listens to its users with Dolphin, I think it is very clear
Vector has the same developmental goals. Vector is very powerful, Very useable,
and very un-dongled! Thats good and bad because eventually they too will have to
give in an secure all their hard work because of those who do not pay for what
they use. I will not hold it against them when they do it.

As far as drawing in Vector ? Well, I am sure that there are those with patience
for that. What I draw is often something that already exists. This means that
there are a whole lot of things I absolutely do not know, nor need to know. One
example may be if I need to represent an existing hole in a part I am drawing. It
seems with some techniques, I need to know where the "start" point of the hole is,
Where the "end" point is, Where the Center point is (very difficult at times
without forethought), Etc. The Fact is, I usually DO NOT care ! Typically, when I
need to place a hole in a drawing, I only need to know diameter, and distance from
an edge or edges. placing a hole with a modern Cad software makes this a breeze. I
do not have to do any math or even think much for that matter.

I also feel that it would take me a substantial amount of time longer to draw
anything where I have to think about what order I should draw it in. Thats just
plain nuts. Draw the part. Then establish toolpath start, stop and direction. I
could care less which direction the entities are pointing on the part I draw. It
just does not matter, unless of course the software relies on it to dictate
toolpath. That is not the best, however, Vector does, with a key command and a
mouse click, let you re-organize or dictate order easy enough. So, I can live with
it. It is still wonderfull for the money. Dolphin ? Probably everything you say it
is. I just can't run out and buy everything that comes along though it is very
tempting. Did you see STLWorks price prior to 1-1-02 ? I laid awake
nights......................but I just could not do it.

> (snip)
> The editing facility is fantastic. Because it has a genuine post processor
> and doesn't generate on the fly like Bobcad etc. you can edit the
> operations until you get what you want.
> Say you want to profile an outside shape, pocket then drill a hole.
> You realise that the hole overlaps the pocket and this will cause the drill
> to run off. OK, no problem, just click on the drill operation and drag it
> up the list to before the pocket or to save tool changes to the top of the
> list.
> It will then drill, profile and pocket in that order. The changes are
> endless and you haven't had to touch the drawing. In fact with a dxf import
> in the CAM side there is no drawing.
>

This sounds alot like Surfcams techniques. I know that the manipulation of various
"projects" or "processes" are cut back in this free version so it will not allow
all of its capability. It certainly is a good technique. Not sure I have come
acroos anything substantially better.
But, back to reality, A working SurfCam 2d is probably $3000 and like I said it
draws way too slow for me (old Cadkey methods) it is very simple to learn and for
that beneficial.

$3000 compared to the under $1k figures for Vector. I cant draw in Surf.... I cant
draw in Vector... $3K.....$1K ??? This was not hard for me to figure out !

I will look forward to future releases of Vector. It is a lot of bang for the
buck. If Dolphin turns out to be the better..... Well time will tell. Their
introductory pricing sure was in line, can't deny that.

be good,

Chris L