Re: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] Re: RF45s and clones: DON'T.

Hi Pete:
I don't recommend the Haas toolroom mill.
All the guys I know that bought one wish they'd bought a fully enclosed
machine instead.
The coolant and chips end up everywhere.
It's almost impossible to stand in front of the machine without a shower
curtain and a garbage can lid (as a shield) while it's running.
The minimill, on the other hand, is a super nice little machine.
Cheers

Marcus

----- Original Message -----
From: "vavaroutsos" <pete@...>
To: <CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, October 20, 2003 4:39 PM
Subject: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] Re: RF45s and clones: DON'T.


> Have you looked at the Haas TM-1?
>
> ~petev
> --- In CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO@yahoogroups.com, Kim Lux <lux@d...> wrote:
> > Comments below:
> >
> > On Mon, 2003-10-20 at 11:13, Jerry Kimberlin wrote:
> > > Kim Lux wrote:
> > >
> > > >We are pulling more than 50 pounds, probably 100 or 150 pounds.
> BTW:
> > > >there is an issue with our G0519 too: the gib bolts are threaded
> into
> > > >the gib corners, thus they work loose.
> > > >
> > > Interesting. I have had no trouble with this. You just relax
> the one
> > > on the bottom of the gib and tighten up the top one until the gib
> is
> > > tightened properly, then tighten the bottom screw. Go back and
> forth an
> > > eighth of a turn (or less) this way until you get the
> correct "feel."
> >
> > We can't really tighten ours properly because the thread is wrecked
> from
> > intersecting the corner of the gib. They've promised us a new
> slide,
> > but we haven't seen it <yet>.
> >
> > > >However, even with the gib
> > > >totally locked we still see flex.
> > > >
> > > Yes, so do I. The flex is probably not in the joint between
> column and
> > > head, but in the column and base.
> >
> > I think it is in the attachment of the head to the column.
> >
> > > >Are your measurements with the gib locked or loose ?
> > > >
> > > It makes no difference on mine. The flex seems to be about the
> same
> >
> > OK.
> >
> > > >We pulled the stock Z axis lead screw out and replaced it with a
> ball
> > > >screw/preloaded nut assembly. The servo motor sits atop of the
> Z axis
> > > >column. We counter weighted the axis by running two cables to
> the top
> > > >of the column and then down to 200ish pounds of weight. The
> head is
> > > >pretty light to move, save the drag of the gib.
> > > >
> > > Thanks very much for that information. You had to make a new
> holder for
> > > the ballscrew and one for the ballnut too.
> >
> > Yep.
> >
> > > Was that very difficult?
> >
> > Relative to what ? Nothing was square on the mill, so that was the
> > hardest part. It works really well, head flex aside.
> >
> > > The acme leadscrew is not up the center of the column and a ball
> screw
> > > would have to be relocated about 3/4" or so to center it in the
> top
> > > column hole.
> >
> > We did exactly that. We mounted a plate across the top of the
> column
> > with zero backlash bearings in it.
> >
> > > Which servo motor are you using and is it geared down?
> >
> > Amatek 40VDC 600 oz in peak, direct drive. Remember it is counter
> > weighted. We've got Z axis speeds of 100 IPM.
> >
> > > Are you using a 1" ballscrew or what size?
> >
> > 3/4" and it is plenty strong. That is a short screw, about 22"
> long.
> > We are using a 1" on the BP clone Z axis. I'd use a 1" ballscrew
> on the
> > Z axis of a 40" lathe too.
> >
> > > >This I did not know. We bought the mill complete, assembled and
> ready
> > > >to run (manually), from Grizzly. I *assumed* that the parts were
> > > >machined properly and ready to use.
> > > >
> > > All the gibs are rough as a corn cob.
> >
> > My machinist told us that was like that on purpose, so that the ways
> > will hold lube and not wear out prematurely. He was impressed with
> > this.
> >
> > > If you just sand them wet on a
> > > surface plate, you will knock off enough of the roughness to make
> them a
> > > lot better and then they will run a lot smoother on the X and Y
> so that
> > > there are no tight spots. I had to do this. I'm sure the Z axis
> will
> > > benefit too.
> >
> > I don't have the time/inclination to do this.
> >
> > > A lot of these machines are full of cosmolene which may or may
> not have
> > > casting sand entrained in it. You have to get all that goop out.
> >
> > We pulled every part of the mill apart when we CNC'd it.
> >
> > > The joint between the column and the base on mine had paint in
> it. I
> > > had to use a scraper to get that out, and to make sure the column
> was
> > > plumb before re-bolting it.
> >
> > Maybe that is why ours is flexing. We didn't take that apart.
> >
> >
> > > If you have loose base bolts, or something
> > > spongy in there like paint, that has to be removed. When I got
> my mill,
> > > I just assumed that I had to totally dismantle it and
> remanufacture
> > > parts of it as every machine I've ever bought from the far east
> has been
> > > this way.
> >
> > Our lathe and BP clone (Enco) were both fine. Several years of use
> and
> > no problems. Never had anything apart on them. I'd never buy
> anything
> > but a BP clone again. Not only are they smaller ie less robust,
> but the
> > machining on them isn't as good.
> >
> > > You might find absolutely nothing wrong, but you may find
> > > something else. That is why these things are generally assumed
> to be a
> > > kit of parts.
> > >
> > > >I don't know what to think of that advice. When I buy a machine
> tool, I
> > > >don't expect to take it apart and refinish things,
> Chineese/clone or
> > > >not.
> > > >
> > > I agree. Quality will improve in time, but it hasn't as yet.
> >
> > > >Given that we still have flex when the gib is locked, I think it
> is a
> > > >machine design issue. Given the overhang and weight of the
> head, that
> > > >gib should be 14" long, not 8". And the column should be bigger
> > > >
> > > Again, I agree. My other mill has none of these problems.
> >
> > I wish someone made a reasonably priced bed mill with a 15 x 40
> table
> > and ballscrews. Gromax has nice bedmills, but they are expensive.
> I'd
> > liek a CAT40 spindle and a 3+ HP 3 phase motor.
> >
> >
> > > JerryK
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Addresses:
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> > > FILES: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO/files/
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> > >
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> > >
> > > OFF Topic POSTS: General Machining
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> > >
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> > >
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> > > List Mom
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> > --
> > Kim Lux <lux@d...>
>
>
> Addresses:
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>
> OFF Topic POSTS: General Machining
> If you wish to post on unlimited OT subjects goto:
aol://5863:126/rec.crafts.metalworking or go thru Google.com to reach it if
you have trouble.
> http://www.metalworking.com/news_servers.html
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/jobshophomeshop I consider this to be a
sister site to the CCED group, as many of the same members are there, for OT
subjects, that are not allowed on the CCED list.
>
> NOTICE: ALL POSTINGS TO THIS GROUP BECOME PUBLIC DOMAIN BY POSTING THEM.
DON'T POST IF YOU CAN NOT ACCEPT THIS.....NO EXCEPTIONS........
> bill
> List Mom
> List Owner
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>