Re: What do we want?

Hi Bertho (and list),

I suspect that Arne is pushing us towards (will settle for) a drawing package,
gcode converter (if required) and emc (or fill in the blank _______) on a
common operating platform, and probably open source.

My own preferences would be to have a 3d (capable) drawing package that
would directly output gcode (and support printers, dxf file output, etc.), be able
to accept manual input (mouse, keyboard etc.) read dxf, gcode, possibly
autocad dwg files (see OpenDWG Alliance) and then be able to send the gcode
directly to EMC (or simulation program, hand optimize if desired, etc.), the only
limitations (physically) being how big is your CNC device.

I believe that we can get a better job of "optimized" the gcode, if it is directly output
from the drawing program, than using a program to convert dxf (or format of your
choice) to gcode. When I used to use DOS based AutoCAD, it did a much better
job of running my plotter (when optimization was selected) than I've ever seen my
windows version run my plotter .... I believe that we can include in the drawing
files cutter geometry, etc. that will enable the drawing package to produce well
organized gcode.

I don't see any reason to interfere with the ongoing development of EMC, as it
appears to be progressing towards a very capable machine operating program,
but I do believe energy put towards a object entry program (drawing program)
that will give us good data to drive EMC is well worth the effort.

Regards,
George Potter
Placerville, California


Bertho Boman wrote:

> From: Bertho Boman <boman@...>
>
> I see many comments and requests for CAD being integrated with the "CNC" or "CAM". Maybe my definitions are not well defined
> and I guess it depends on goals and how we work.
>
> I know there are very high end systems where everything is integrated and machining centers are tied together with the design
> systems (car manufacturing for example) but I do not think that is our goal, at least it is not mine.
>
> I see several levels of system requirements but would like comments and suggested typical programs for each.
>
> PHASE 1: When I design a new product, I spend days and often weeks to put the system together so that all the individual
> hardware and subsections fit and work together. After that, I create drawings and specifications of the different components
> and normally send the drawings and DXF file out to get prototypes made. If the parts can reasonably by made manually, I make
> my own prototypes. I am in the process of converting my mill to CNC.
>
> This point seems to me to be a crucial dividing line. My work as an engineer is over and I put on my machining hat and go and
> get dirty.
>
> PHASE 2: Actually, once I am in the shop, I would work in the shop office first and create "the machine control file". I like
> to be able to load the "data" from the previous design program or from a customers data file. Hopefully, the customer will have
> it as some data file, DXF, or what not. Presumably, at this point I will need a program to generate G-codes from the data file
> together with my manual interaction for tool selection and desired tool path. I envision this program as an intermediate step,
> a converter, from the engineering world to the machining world and the output would be G-codes although I have seen references
> on the list to other unfamiliar systems. The G-codes can be saved and just reused for future production. It would be important
> that the converter program can show tool path and machine operation to catch blunders. Even better, hopefully, it can also show
> clamps and fixtures.
>
> This is to me the second major dividing line. Now the data is ready for production manufacturing (hopefully) and it gets to the
> flying chips part.
>
> PHASE 3: From the shop office the G-codes would be sent to the machine on the floor. There the G-codes and tools and DRO
> functions would be displayed and the part would be machined under "CNC".
>
> There are other desired software features that would be nice, for example, reverse G-code to DXF and some type of quicky
> "manual" CNC for very simple operations on the floor.
>
> Phase 1, design stage. I have seen Rhino mentioned and there are many other CAD programs available at a tremendous price range
> from free to $$$$$$$. I am using AutoCad for my part and I am not doing any fancy curved surfaces, at least not yet but it is
> tempting with CNC available.
>
> Phase 2, conversion. I have zero experience with programs to convert. Suggestions??
>
> Phase 3, machining. I have used several different programs but they have always been supplied by the machine manufacturer. I
> guess the prime candidate here is EMC and there are expensive commercial software, often tied with hardware manufactured by the
> same company.
>
> After all that writing (I'm competing with Arne) comes a few questions:
>
> Many of the "free" or low-cost programs that are discussed here seem to blur the definitions between the phases that I have
> tried to create. Maybe the phases are wrong.
>
> Why would anyone use a program that can not accept G-codes? Time to put on flame proof jacket again! Why a CAD program that
> runs a milling machine? Of course, it would be great if one program could do all but then it is usually mediocre instead.
>
> So, what are the recommended software for the different phases or how should I re-split the definitions?
>
> Bertho Boman
>
> > Welcome to CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO@...,an unmoderated list for the discussion of shop built systems in the above catagories.
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