Re: What do we want?

I would have to agree with George's thoughts on the subject.
Heck, Linux is multitasking, right? I don't see it as a big deal to run
a CAD/CAM program in another window. I'm not a programmer, so might be
concerned about nothing, but I'd rather not even take a chance on
compromising the reliability of EMC.

Now, if what George proposes can be hooked into EMC at a later date,
great. But I really feel that motion control should be dealt with by a
dedicated program, everything else associated with CAD/CAM/programming
should be integrated into one or more external programs.
I like the interface of Ron Ginger's AcuRite clone. Expand the canned
routines, add G-code output, DXF and DWG import, and it's a killer app.

BTW, that's not to say that I don't think EMC wouldn't benefit by adding
a conversational option, but that's a lot different that integrating a
CAD program. ( I think )

Jon


George Potter wrote:

>
> From: George Potter <gpotter@...>
>
> Hi Bertho (and list),
>
> I suspect that Arne is pushing us towards (will settle for) a drawing package,
> gcode converter (if required) and emc (or fill in the blank _______) on a
> common operating platform, and probably open source.
>
> My own preferences would be to have a 3d (capable) drawing package that
> would directly output gcode (and support printers, dxf file output, etc.), be able
> to accept manual input (mouse, keyboard etc.) read dxf, gcode, possibly
> autocad dwg files (see OpenDWG Alliance) and then be able to send the gcode
> directly to EMC (or simulation program, hand optimize if desired, etc.), the only
> limitations (physically) being how big is your CNC device.
>
> I believe that we can get a better job of "optimized" the gcode, if it is directly output
> from the drawing program, than using a program to convert dxf (or format of your
> choice) to gcode. When I used to use DOS based AutoCAD, it did a much better
> job of running my plotter (when optimization was selected) than I've ever seen my
> windows version run my plotter .... I believe that we can include in the drawing
> files cutter geometry, etc. that will enable the drawing package to produce well
> organized gcode.
>
> I don't see any reason to interfere with the ongoing development of EMC, as it
> appears to be progressing towards a very capable machine operating program,
> but I do believe energy put towards a object entry program (drawing program)
> that will give us good data to drive EMC is well worth the effort.
>
> Regards,
> George Potter
> Placerville, California
>
> Bertho Boman wrote:
>
> > From: Bertho Boman <boman@...>
> >
> > I see many comments and requests for CAD being integrated with the "CNC" or "CAM". Maybe my definitions are not well defined
> > and I guess it depends on goals and how we work.
> >
> > I know there are very high end systems where everything is integrated and machining centers are tied together with the design
> > systems (car manufacturing for example) but I do not think that is our goal, at least it is not mine.
> >
> > I see several levels of system requirements but would like comments and suggested typical programs for each.
> >
> > PHASE 1: When I design a new product, I spend days and often weeks to put the system together so that all the individual
> > hardware and subsections fit and work together. After that, I create drawings and specifications of the different components
> > and normally send the drawings and DXF file out to get prototypes made. If the parts can reasonably by made manually, I make
> > my own prototypes. I am in the process of converting my mill to CNC.
> >
> > This point seems to me to be a crucial dividing line. My work as an engineer is over and I put on my machining hat and go and
> > get dirty.
> >
> > PHASE 2: Actually, once I am in the shop, I would work in the shop office first and create "the machine control file". I like
> > to be able to load the "data" from the previous design program or from a customers data file. Hopefully, the customer will have
> > it as some data file, DXF, or what not. Presumably, at this point I will need a program to generate G-codes from the data file
> > together with my manual interaction for tool selection and desired tool path. I envision this program as an intermediate step,
> > a converter, from the engineering world to the machining world and the output would be G-codes although I have seen references
> > on the list to other unfamiliar systems. The G-codes can be saved and just reused for future production. It would be important
> > that the converter program can show tool path and machine operation to catch blunders. Even better, hopefully, it can also show
> > clamps and fixtures.
> >
> > This is to me the second major dividing line. Now the data is ready for production manufacturing (hopefully) and it gets to the
> > flying chips part.
> >
> > PHASE 3: From the shop office the G-codes would be sent to the machine on the floor. There the G-codes and tools and DRO
> > functions would be displayed and the part would be machined under "CNC".
> >
> > There are other desired software features that would be nice, for example, reverse G-code to DXF and some type of quicky
> > "manual" CNC for very simple operations on the floor.
> >
> > Phase 1, design stage. I have seen Rhino mentioned and there are many other CAD programs available at a tremendous price range
> > from free to $$$$$$$. I am using AutoCad for my part and I am not doing any fancy curved surfaces, at least not yet but it is
> > tempting with CNC available.
> >
> > Phase 2, conversion. I have zero experience with programs to convert. Suggestions??
> >
> > Phase 3, machining. I have used several different programs but they have always been supplied by the machine manufacturer. I
> > guess the prime candidate here is EMC and there are expensive commercial software, often tied with hardware manufactured by the
> > same company.
> >
> > After all that writing (I'm competing with Arne) comes a few questions:
> >
> > Many of the "free" or low-cost programs that are discussed here seem to blur the definitions between the phases that I have
> > tried to create. Maybe the phases are wrong.
> >
> > Why would anyone use a program that can not accept G-codes? Time to put on flame proof jacket again! Why a CAD program that
> > runs a milling machine? Of course, it would be great if one program could do all but then it is usually mediocre instead.
> >
> > So, what are the recommended software for the different phases or how should I re-split the definitions?
> >
> > Bertho Boman
> >
> > > Welcome to CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO@...,an unmoderated list for the discussion of shop built systems in the above catagories.
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> > bill,
> > List Manager
>
> > Welcome to CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO@...,an unmoderated list for the discussion of shop built systems in the above catagories.
> To Unsubscribe, read archives, change to or from digest.
> Go to: http://www.onelist.com/isregistered.cgi
> Log on, and you will go to Member Center, and you can make changes there.
> For the FAQ, go to http://www.ktmarketing.com/faq.html
> bill,
> List Manager