RE: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] Re: XYLOTEX VS GECKO DRIVE ?? why ?

Mark, that was a very interesting report on Xylotex drives! The only suggestions I would make is to use lower rated voltage stepper, and as far as you feed rates for cutting wood, you may want to about double your rate, at 25 ipm is too slow for wood, you may burn you bit up at that rate....

Mark Thomas <mthomas@...> wrote:This is not a comparison between Xylotex and Gecko drivers, as they are
apples and oranges, it might even be considered off topic, but given the
amount of chatter in the group regarding steppers, drivers, power supplies,
wiring etc. I hope the moderators will allow some latitude.

I just got the Xylotex's installed and running, and wanted to say thanks to
all who recommended them. My experience to date has been with the MicroProto
controller which came with the Taig mill, and the Camtronics 2amp board
(both good products).

In brief, all I can say is that I'm very impressed, both with the product
and the support offered by Jeff.

I'm running the boards off a 28 vdc 10 amp power supply, and set up in 8th
step mode am getting dependable rapids of 35+ IPM on X and Y and 24 on Z.
This type of speed was impossible on the other controllers even in full step
mode. More importantly this also translates into faster usable cutting
speeds. I cut both metal and wood on the mill, and I just finished some
milling of hard maple with a .375 end mill, .1 depth 25 IPM cut rate,
previously I couldn't reliably get that speed during rapids, let alone
cutting.

I can't believe how much quieter this driver is, micro-stepping certainly
eliminates most of the resonance of the motors. For the first time I can run
the mill with confidence at reasonable speeds.

Couple of minor negatives, the instruction sheet could be more detailed,
however that said Jeff offers quick email response to questions. As
delivered the boards can not be mounted vertically as the heat sinks are not
tested in that position. These boards cry out to be mounted vertically, in
the next controller I build I will work out a way of mechanically holding
the heat sinks in position.

My original concern about the low voltage turned out to be unfounded, the
drives work exceptionally well, however I can't help but wish that Allegro
had looked at the market closer and developed a chip that could go up to say
40-50 volts. The MCG steppers I use are rated at 4.4 volts, and the original
Shinano's included with the mill are rated at 6.4 volts (the MicroProto is a
higher voltage lower amp driver), this voltage is typical of the motors most
of us use on this size of equipment. It would be nice to drive them at
somewhat higher than a peak of 26.5. However, that said, I don't know if
that would increase performance. The current setup already pushes the Taig
mill to its reasonable limits. In a conversation with Cliff at Taig last
year, he winced at the thought of anything over 30 IPM.

In theory the boards are supposed to be able to handle 35 volts, but that
includes back current, so I think anything over the 28 is pushing it. I've
had one fellow user tell me off line that the chips let their smoke out at
anything over 30 volts regardless of cooling.

In summary, I think that this is the perfect board for mills and lathes the
size of Sherline and Taig. If you are unhappy with your current setup, or
planning to get into CNC this is definitely the board I highly recommend.
Cost/performance is possibly the best in the current market.

On the issue of support, the vref on the single axis board I received would
not register a proper voltage, it would however still drive the motor at a
reduced rate of power. Jeff sent me an immediate replacement without
question. Keep in mind that I'm on the other side of the big pond (Japan) so
this type of support is especially valuable to me.

I've just become a Sherline dealer here, and intend to base the controller I
will offer with the CNC units around the Xylotex boards.

Cheers,

Mark

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Statman Designs, LLC [mailto:titanium@...]
> Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2003 11:52 AM
> To: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] Re: XYLOTEX VS GECKO DRIVE ?? why ?
>
>
> Mark,
>
> I was so impressed with the increased performance (from a
> resonance point of
> view, or lack thereof) that I bought two Xyoltex drives and have put my
> Camtronics 2A driver on the shelf. You will have to use a smaller power
> supply, obviously, but Jeff at Xylotex has a nice 24V unit he can
> sell you.
> You can also buy the same 24V P.S. through MPJA.com.
>
> Daniel J. Statman, Statman Designs
> www.statmandesigns.com
> dan.statman@...
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mark Thomas"
> To:
> Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2003 10:07 PM
> Subject: RE: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] Re: XYLOTEX VS GECKO DRIVE ?? why ?
>
>
> > Luis,
> >
> > I've just ordered a couple of Xylotex boards (3 & 1 Axis) to
> try out on my
> > Taig. I should receive them some time next week, and once I have them
> setup
> > I'll write a report about them.
> >
> > I don't have any Gecko's so won't be able to compare directly
> (apples and
> > oranges anyway), but will be able to compare with the Microproto driver
> and
> > Camtronics 2amp board.
> >
> > I'm changing because I want to use 1/8 stepping. I'm also a little
> concerned
> > about the voltage (I'm using 35VDC with the Camtronics board) but I
> decided
> > the Xylotex was worth trying out due to all the good feedback
> I've read on
> > various groups. (If they aren't suitable for the mill I've got
> some other
> > projects going that I can use them with).
> >
> > It should be interesting because all the steppers on my mill are
> different.
> > I have the original 180 oz on the Z and A axis, a 200oz on Y
> and a larger
> > 262oz on X.
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Mark
> >
> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: luisguillermo98 [mailto:luisguillermo98@...]
> > > Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2003 10:16 AM
> > > To: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO@yahoogroups.com
> > > Subject: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] Re: XYLOTEX VS GECKO DRIVE ?? why ?
> > >
> > >
> > > Dave,
> > > I am not changing. I have geckos on sherline and I am looking for a
> > > new CNC for my new taig I just got. I am trying to find out if the
> > > xylotex will work as well as the gecko...My volt/current are low I am
> > > wondering if xylotex will give me the same speed and power.
> > >
> > >
> > > Luis ...
> > >
> > > --- In CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO@yahoogroups.com, "turbulatordude"
> > > wrote:
> > > > Hi Luis,
> > > >
> > > > The question I think that I don't have an answer to is why do you
> > > > want to change ?
> > > >
> > > > the motor will get as hot as the power you put thru it. Regardless
> > > > of the driver, if you use 30V and 2 amp, the motor will get exactly
> > > > the same temp.
> > > >
> > > > if you pump more power thru it by increaseing the amps the motor
> > > will
> > > > get hoter.
> > > >
> > > > Also, by reducing your existing set-up to a lower voltage you will
> > > > lose speed, no way around that.
> > > >
> > > > I may have missed if you motor is a 4 wire or 6/8. the 4 is set
> > > and
> > > > does not offer options. if it is a 6 or 8 wire, then you have the
> > > > option of wiring it for a single coil at full amps or series for
> > > half
> > > > amps. the half amps offers a much cooler motor.
> > > >
> > > > either way, a 2 amp rating on a Gecko is low and the Gecko will not
> > > > get hot.
> > > >
> > > > Maybe it would be a good idea to list the nameplate volts and amps,
> > > > wire count and if you are wiring it single coil or series.
> > > >
> > > > What it sounds like is you are trading down for no reason. the 4
> > > > volt motor would be much stronger at 60 volts than 35 volts and a
> > > > series winding will offer a much colder motor.
> > > >
> > > > Dave
> > >
> > >
> > > Addresses:
> > > FAQ: http://www.ktmarketing.com/faq.html
> > > FILES: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO/files/
> > > Post Messages: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO@yahoogroups.com
> > >
> > > Subscribe: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > > Unsubscribe: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > > List owner: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO-owner@yahoogroups.com,
> > > wanliker@..., timg@...
> > > Moderator: pentam@... indigo_red@... [Moderators]
> > > URL to this group: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO
> > >
> > > OFF Topic POSTS: General Machining
> > > If you wish to post on unlimited OT subjects goto:
> > > aol://5863:126/rec.crafts.metalworking or go thru Google.com to
> > > reach it if you have trouble.
> > > http://www.metalworking.com/news_servers.html
> > >
> > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/jobshophomeshop I consider this
> > > to be a sister site to the CCED group, as many of the same
> > > members are there, for OT subjects, that are not allowed on the CCED
> list.
> > >
> > > NOTICE: ALL POSTINGS TO THIS GROUP BECOME PUBLIC DOMAIN BY
> > > POSTING THEM. DON'T POST IF YOU CAN NOT ACCEPT THIS.....NO
> > > EXCEPTIONS........
> > > bill
> > > List Mom
> > > List Owner
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > Addresses:
> > FAQ: http://www.ktmarketing.com/faq.html
> > FILES: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO/files/
> > Post Messages: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO@yahoogroups.com
> >
> > Subscribe: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > Unsubscribe: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > List owner: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO-owner@yahoogroups.com, wanliker@...,
> timg@...
> > Moderator: pentam@... indigo_red@... [Moderators]
> > URL to this group: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO
> >
> > OFF Topic POSTS: General Machining
> > If you wish to post on unlimited OT subjects goto:
> aol://5863:126/rec.crafts.metalworking or go thru Google.com to
> reach it if
> you have trouble.
> > http://www.metalworking.com/news_servers.html
> >
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/jobshophomeshop I consider this to be a
> sister site to the CCED group, as many of the same members are
> there, for OT
> subjects, that are not allowed on the CCED list.
> >
> > NOTICE: ALL POSTINGS TO THIS GROUP BECOME PUBLIC DOMAIN BY POSTING THEM.
> DON'T POST IF YOU CAN NOT ACCEPT THIS.....NO EXCEPTIONS........
> > bill
> > List Mom
> > List Owner
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to

http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

>
>

Addresses:
FAQ: http://www.ktmarketing.com/faq.html
FILES: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO/files/
Post Messages: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO@yahoogroups.com

Subscribe: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Unsubscribe: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
List owner: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO-owner@yahoogroups.com, wanliker@...,
timg@...
Moderator: pentam@... indigo_red@... [Moderators]
URL to this group: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO

OFF Topic POSTS: General Machining
If you wish to post on unlimited OT subjects goto:
aol://5863:126/rec.crafts.metalworking or go thru Google.com to reach it if
you have trouble.
http://www.metalworking.com/news_servers.html

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/jobshophomeshop I consider this to be a
sister site to the CCED group, as many of the same members are there, for OT
subjects, that are not allowed on the CCED list.

NOTICE: ALL POSTINGS TO THIS GROUP BECOME PUBLIC DOMAIN BY POSTING THEM.
DON'T POST IF YOU CAN NOT ACCEPT THIS.....NO EXCEPTIONS........
bill
List Mom
List Owner



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/




Addresses:
FAQ: http://www.ktmarketing.com/faq.html
FILES: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO/files/
Post Messages: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO@yahoogroups.com

Subscribe: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Unsubscribe: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
List owner: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO-owner@yahoogroups.com, wanliker@..., timg@...
Moderator: pentam@... indigo_red@... [Moderators]
URL to this group: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO

OFF Topic POSTS: General Machining
If you wish to post on unlimited OT subjects goto: aol://5863:126/rec.crafts.metalworking or go thru Google.com to reach it if you have trouble.
http://www.metalworking.com/news_servers.html

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/jobshophomeshop I consider this to be a sister site to the CCED group, as many of the same members are there, for OT subjects, that are not allowed on the CCED list.

NOTICE: ALL POSTINGS TO THIS GROUP BECOME PUBLIC DOMAIN BY POSTING THEM. DON'T POST IF YOU CAN NOT ACCEPT THIS.....NO EXCEPTIONS........
bill
List Mom
List Owner



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/




---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]