Re: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] Waht does open mean? was Re: Indexer LPT (IX)

Boy, I think I should have you write my opinions from now on !

Like you, I have no issues with the motion aspect, Just interfacing.
Production Automation Tech probably has the most indepth interface for it. At
$500 and Dos to boot, I just felt like waiting the issue out until someone
who is a programmer would make an interface. I've concluded I am just to old
to learn anything about that.

I'd be confident that some on this list who have spent quite a bit of time
already with new techniques could have easily written an interface in place
of virtually starting from scratch. Because ipx is really pure "motion
control" in capability, I'm pretty convinced that there is not much it would
not have when applying to CNC use, well for my purposes anyhow.

I bought an old Digital and there was some liturature about Crawford. I too
tried to find out where they were now. No luck.

$700 is a bargain in my viewpoint. Many have run out and purchased the Likes
of Ah-ha for plenty more. With Ah-ha, you were stuck in a rigid Dos were even
using a good Dos editor became a problem much less networking easily. Floppy
disk transfers of files just stinks. Indexers issue was always interface. It
may STILL be. We will learn more as some of the first purchasers post here.

I have no problem whatsoever with fellows trying to write the "open" stuff.
Clearly, in the future, It may even be available to me. I have a hunch
though, as you mention it a "challenge" to write an interface alone, That
some of this "open", "ultimate" stuff will be much more challenging than just
an interface. Indexer "did" or "learned" something long ago about contouring
and high step rates without proprietary hardware. That says something....

Attitude.... You would agree I am sure that ArtV is a very nice man. But, I
too feel that if the product was dropped into the hands of some real
"gogetters", Things could be radically different. I wonder how much money it
would cost to buy someone like that out ???

Factory Lab. It sure does seem like a few "lab" machines have used the
product very successfully. I'm talking very precise applications were they
have had unlimited funds to have their own front end developed. This is one
reason Art has been "specific" on the Backlash viewpoint. (Backlash ? Why do
you want that in a precision machine ?) I think I mentioned before, Some
companies put in their "backlash" comp, People read that in the liturature
and then are happy. But, a control with a very good contouring ability it up
to 6 axis does more than just add or subtract steps.


Wiring. I don't know, I think it is not so bad. So you have 3 ports. Most
fellows in this group seem far, far beyond that stage. Newcomers just need to
patiently follow directions and it will work for them too.

Clock. I forgot about that issue. I had it as a stand alone and it did not
matter. Everyone should "bank" on a standalone anyhow.

Eaten up ? Well, that I won't necessarilly agree on. I understnd your points
totally about the opinions there. But, I do feel that if Arts new G-code
interface does not satisfy the masses, someday, someone will recognize
Indexers capability and make an interface that we like.

Maybe a really good "preliminary" project for one of the "Open" advocates in
the group. I'd take indexer with a user configured interface even without the
ability to "change" the source capability ! how about you?

Chris L

ballendo wrote:

> Chris,
>
> Sounds like you have had similar experience to mine with IX, HPIX,
> etc. So why wasn't/isn't it mentioned/used more?
>
> 1) Its a pretty nice program, but you either had to pay a lot for the
> hpgl front-end from ability(hpix), or Crawfords' "tool" mentioned in
> my last post, or "cnc117", or someone elses "front-end"; or you had
> to have the ability to write your own. As many discover, this is
> harder than it looks.
>
> 2) Cost, relative to more recent offerings. Whether we want to admit
> it or not; for most things price beats features. Especially
> if "enough" functionality is provided for a "cheap enough" price.
> Others making their products plug and go, compared to the more
> involved setup issues of IX. Indexer with hpgl was 450 bucks ten
> years ago. Now its 700 for IXwin and gcode. The price is fair,IMO,
> but it's more than many will pay...
>
> 3) Positioning in the marketplace. Art V has advertised for years in
> electronics mags, while flashcut and others are in metalworking mags.
> For years, he has been asked to make something for gcode, but has
> chosen to stick with the factory/lab automation market; accepting cnc
> type customers on an "as they come" basis.
>
> 4) Those d#$% non-standard cables and multiple p-ports! Say what you
> want, most people are afraid of wiring. and when there are other
> (albeit, not as high performance, or capabilities) programs which "do
> it all" with ONE printer cable for FOUR axes, again simplicity wins.
>
> Lastly, Ability has had a "take it or leave it attitude", which many
> find uncomfortable, compared to "I'll try to do that for you" that
> others were/are offering... (And the bitter taste of the Digital Tool
> episode is still apparent, IMO).
>
> Almost forgot. When computers were not as cheaply available (so we
> didn't have scads lying around), the fact that the system clock
> stopped during motion (and wasn't automatically updated) meant that
> if we had one computer which sometimes ran indexer, its' time/date
> was always off...
>
> I'm looking forward to see how the Gcode program performs. But IMO,
> Ability HAS to listen to and RESPOND to their customers requests, or
> they will be eaten by the growing competition.
>
> Hope this helps.
>
> Ballendo
>
> --- In CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO@y..., Chris L <datac@l...> wrote:
> > Oh,
> >
> > I wanted to add that until Ability finally came out with the new
> windows G-code interface, it was an "open" market for anyone to make
> an interface. Some have made different things but they have been DOS.
> If you are into
> > programming, I don't see how it could have been that hard to do in
> that you simply need to translate G-Code to the correct language.
> >
> > One item not applied into the program is backlash comp. I had a
> very interesting discussion (actually a listening session) With Art
> as to why it is not implimented. He made very clear to me he will be
> adding it, but, that it
> > is not just a matter of "if you have X amount of Slop in a machine,
> just add or subtract steps". His programs capability of multi axis
> moves would take some time to really make backlash work correctly and
> he does not want to
> > just install a lesser technique. So, In the meantime, Why not build
> a machine without backlash !
> >
> > I think it is still possible to purchase the two parts of the
> program separate. Because of the way this TSR control works, I'm sure
> many will point out that it is not "realtime" in the common sense.
> About the only thing I can
> > think of that some would miss Is the constant update of location
> though it runs by so fast who can really figure it out? Then again, I
> run a Router and it moves a bit faster than a mill. The program will
> only update when you
> > pause or stop motion. When a control works good, I guess this would
> not bother me.
> >
> > I'd be curious to hear from the "open" control guys if this is or
> is not open. I know some actually ran this thing out of an excel
> spreadsheet to create code. Sounds kinda "open" to me.........
> >
> > One really important thing to remember if you hang it on a driver,
> is that it uses a negative trigger to change "step". If your set
> wrong, you will lose steps in a most calculable way.
> >
> > Chris L
> >
> > Art Fenerty wrote:
> >
> > > Hi All:
> > >
> > > I was just reading the Indexer LPT site. Does anyone here have
> experience with it. Is it a software only solution which runs at
> 90,000 pulses per second? How do you find it runs? How is it's
> constant velocity contouring?
> > > Is it a driver that loads prior to windows? Sounds like a
> great solution, I'd like to hear about its performance if anyone has
> driven it.
> > >
> > > Art
> > > Master5 Software
> > > http://users.andara.com/~fenerty/master.htm
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
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