Re: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] Re: Flashcut vs desknc for windows & Deskam

ron ginger wrote:

> Real simple answer- Indexer.LPT is about $350. If you tried to sell a
> package on top if it you would be much to expensive for the hobby
> market.

I have always considered the "hobby" market to include the $1000 control and
probably will for a while yet. I have my reasons.
Most of my "concern" over an "Interface" was when LPT was only $295. This goes
back at least 5 years. Yes, 5 years ago Indexer LPT displayed some very nice
countouring routines for $295 (It may have been $249 actually). I'd like to know
who else even came close back then. There were no $200 options back then !!!

We had about 7 different machine controls running, both OEM and Retro. I would
have swapped them in an instant back then IF Indexer had the G-code interface.
Even now, at $350 per copy of the "Motor" TSR..... I think there is STILL room to
keep it under $1K. And, I think any program can demand it if it really works
without glitch. Some of us actually make money with our hobby machines. I prefer
to turn it on and RUN !

DeskWinNC, Master5, K-Cam, CNCPro and what ever I am forgetting, did not even
exist until just a short time ago.

Now, I feel all these are very, very welcomed attempts to the hobby cnc market.
Who doesn't like the sound of Windows control for $200 with contouring ! I use
the word "attempts" ONLY in the sense that they are programs that were created
largely by dedicated individuals at the hobby level. It surely would be open to
argument as to which of these programs are "Done" in the strictest sense and not
a work in progress. Clearly, some are still ongoing projects with daily
development. Some may exhibit strange behavior depending on hardware interaction,
some may be having other issues worked out. hopefully none have been left to be
"buggy" all their life with no chance for survival.

Do not misunderstand what I am saying. The $200 control is not a bad thing, this
is a good thing. I like the dedication behind these efforts. We NEED the
dedication behind these efforts. Look what the Gecko Did for this hobby ! I wish
I was starting out with this hobby now, that's for sure !

My concept of "hobby" = around "$1K and down" relates to the fact that the $1k
level of controls are pretty much "Plug and Play", "finished at the current
level" projects. They are absolutely working copies of what they are without bugs
or flaws that could cause an accident or mishap. For some, like me, this is
important. Sometimes it can even be a cheaper project in the long run.

How? Consider that FlashCuts BRAND NEW CHIP replacement gets you to the 100K step
rate across 3 axis while contouring.... all while still using an old P100......
Gee, I do not need some P500 and above computer to make a dedicated control !
Many were critical of the lack of step capability in the past. Not anymore ! Do
it under NT as well if you like. I just did a little testing with the new chip.
The change from the P100 to a Celeron 466 was not noticable at all in regards
motion, only re-drawing large toolpaths.

Lets see......$1000 control and an easily found PC, or $200 control and
an $800 PC ? it evens out I guess. An office to call on both ends of the
continent helps when you can not figure something out too ! Of course, Indexer
still gets pretty impressive with an old processor too. I'm waiting to hear how
the new interface goes. Even with both the $350 LPT and the $349 G-code
interface..... Well, Its under $1K.

> Look at all the low end packages- they are mostly under $200.
> And the latest version has a damn dongle with it. I would never deal
> with one of those.

The Black Box method IS in effect a Dongle. You cannot run without it. I hate
dongles too but understand why they are there. If I was a programmer and my
product was a free for all, I'd dongle it too. People today do not know right
from wrong so what is a person to do ? Likely, when the developers of these
inexpensive programs finalize all of their hard work, and if they too want to
"get paid" for it, They will move to software protection of some sort. Sad, but,
true. If they do not decide to dongle at some point, Generally these programs
"burn out" in the marketplace because no-one will update them, keeping them
current for the frugal.

In all honesty, If an individual purchases a control that needs a dongle, and he
sets it up on a dedicated PC (which today, with the price of old PC's should
really not be cause for complaint) AND it WORKS........ What does it matter?? It
only matters to the fellow who wants to buy one copy and install it in more than
one place. What other concern is there ?

Like I said, I don't like dongles either. What I really hate is when companies
use the darn things to hold you hostage when it quits working. That is
ridiculous. And, I sure like dongles more than Software based code protection
systems.

> As I have written before, I like the signal box approach, BUT I would
> not buy one with a closed interface. If Flashcut would open their spec
> Id have converted my interactive system to it two years ago. I tried to
> use the SimpleStep serial board but had to much trouble programming it
> from Visual BAsic.
>
> I am anxious to try the Master5 interface to VB, just havent had time
> yet.
>

I too watch with interest. I hope that this discussion would prompt those who use
these inexpensive controls to post their results here. Especially those fellows
who have switched from one to another.
But lets be careful, This isn't a BASH fest. This is a group trying to help
everyone learn how fun this can be !

Carry on,

Chris Luebke