Re: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] Re: Flashcut vs desknc for windows & Deskam

Hi All:

I thought I'd jump in and explain the "Don't use Windows" paradigm
as I have seen referances to it quite frequently.
It was, for a long time, considered wrong to use Windows for pulseing a
stepper motor. This is because in general applications programming, it is
virtually impossible to pulse a stepper reliably under Windows.The fastest
Windows can reliably run a timer is 1000hz and even that is questionable. As
a result of discussions on this group about 2 years ago, I endevoured to
produce a windows Ring0 (System)driver to pulse faster and more reliably.
The driver works quite well with a couple of caveats. It does not work on
some older motherboards, and it runs at a maximum speed of 8192Hz. It was
generally thought that although one could pulse at 8Khz, you could not
subdivide the frequency from 1Hz to 8192Hz with one hertz steps. The Master5
driver does it quite well.
It is not a good solution for those who need speeds up to 100,000 Hz,
but most home machines now seem to be in the range of 1000 - 4000 Pulses per
inch so a speed of 8IPS to 2IPS is obtained with a 8Khz driver. This is not
only adequate for some, but faster than required for many.
This method does have its problems, but users usually find the problems
are outweighed by the advantages. It is not a Windows program in the usual
sense as it attempts to turn Winows into a psuedo Real-Time environment, and
people soon find it has its own quirks (Just like the DOS programs). In the
end it offers a trade-off between the tight control of DOS with its limited
and clunky user controls with up to 80,000PPS, and the less tightly
controlled environment of Windows with its rich features and much better
user interface with a top speed of 8000PPS. I don't want to make this an
Ad, (some like coffeee, some like tea) I just wanted to answer the "dated"
expression in some manuals that you should beware of Windows in CNC
control's. It can be done. I suspect in future it will be done more often.
Faster machines lead to more possibilities.

Thanks,
Art
Master5 Software
http://users.andara.com/~fenerty/master.htm

----- Original Message -----
From: "aspaguy" <spaguy@...>
To: <CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2002 6:38 PM
Subject: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] Re: Flashcut vs desknc for windows & Deskam


> ---
> Group: Thanks for the insightfull replies to my post. paricularly
> Chris, Dan & Ballendo. Like so many things in life answers just
> create more questions.I did resend the e-mail to flashcut and got a
> quick response. unfortunately, as a newby the benefits they described
> were over my head and I'm not sure that weather deskwin nc has the
> same benefits or not. I will e-mail deskam and ask them about these.
> It seems that no one here on the group has dealt with both progams
> much, but fortunately Dan and Chris have each used 1 of the programs
> and found them favorable. this information also creates more
> questions, like what is Continuous contouring? it sounds like its
> important for my type of application.And what about tool radius
> compensation. I would assume this has to do with cutting a square
> hole with a round bit and getting corners that are radiused the same
> as the bit radius, but i don't see how software can fix that.
> As far as why Master 5 wasn't being considered, well that has more
> to do with how i got to this point than with good sense. To make a
> long story short, I was under the impression that using the windows
> clock to run the program created very undesireable problems. I would
> appreciate more feedback on this and if master 5 has really been
> able to adequately solve it without a signal generator. I previously
> had stumbled on to the master 5 sight, but dismissed it becaus of no
> signal gen. At Ballendo's suggestion I went to the data base to check
> out Master 5 and discovered It was authored by a guy named Art, the
> same Art who seemed Quite insightful in answering many of the
> questions I have seen on this group. This tells me that this is
> definitly worth looking at along with the other 2 Also, I have seen
> a few programs with nesting features for better materials usage, but
> most of them have been expensive. does anyone know if this is
> available in any of these low cost programs? Would this be considered
> a cad or a cam funtion? Speaking of cam, Chris, the funtion of
> Creating G code from Dxf is handled in Deskam, then Desknc uses the
> g to run the drivers.
> By the way, has anyone considered adding a cnc glossary to the
> database? A complete and growing glossary would save a lot of time
> for us newbies (there seems to be a lot of us) and keep you vetrans
> from answering the same questions over & over it should contain what
> seems obvious such as drivers, steppers, servos, as well as
> acronyms.... dxf, g, cad, cam, etc as well as deeper terms like
> continuos contouring and tool radius compensation. Shoot, if enough
> of these database features are added, perhaps instead of a book we
> can just rename the group " cnc for dummies" ( if that isn't to
> insulting for our exhalted vetrans. lol) I guess I'd better end this
> novel and give someone a chance to reply
> Thanks,
> Dale
>
> In CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO@y..., Chris L <datac@l...> wrote:
> > There would be an interesting thing to try to find out. Just who
> was doing
> > it. I really do not recall of any real PC styled windows G-Code
> control. I do
> > recall some motion control stuff and certainly data-acc stuff.
> >
> > It was all big money.. That I remember well !
> >
> > Chris L
> >
> > ballendo wrote:
> >
> > > Chris,
> > >
> > > Lotta good stuff in this post. I've snipped one small part tho'
> > >
> > > LOTS of people/companies were doing contouring in Windows before
> > > FLashcut! Those just weren't AIMED at the low cost user... or
> large
> > > markets.
> > >
> > > Sometimes there is a tendency to forget that a world often exists
> > > beyond our current boundaries... And might have existed for some
> time.
> > >
> > > Have to say that the rest of your post is pretty spot on, IMO.
> > >
> > > Hope this helps
> > >
> > > Ballendo
> > >
> > > P.S. Is there a reason Master5 isn't being considered in this
> group?
> > > EXCELLENT contouring, NO black box. Extensive(nist EMC) gcodes
> (and
> > > other import filetypes). LOW price. Down side? Currently slow
> pulse
> > > output, but soon to change with Master6 release.
> > >
> > > --- In CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO@y..., Chris L <datac@l...> wrote:
> > > <snip>
> > > > There is also some satisfaction in recognizing that this is the
> > > company who actually "DID" make a PC based Windows control With
> > > Continuous Contouring when all the Nay-sayers said "It can not be
> > > done" and that DOS was the ONLY way ! They obviously were a
> > > bit "advanced" back then. <snip>
> > >
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