Re: EHP External Hardware Proposal

> From: "Steve Carlisle" <quatsein@...>
>
> Hans, this hardware we are talking about, in general is
> called an indexer, and there is litteraly dozens of differant
> models available, from many manufacturers. They all work
> with a command list.
>
> Steve
>
> ----------
> From: hansw <hansw@...>
> To: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO@onelist.com
> Subject: Re: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO]EHP External Hardware Proposal
> Date: Tuesday, February 01, 2000 9:26 PM
>
> From: hansw <hansw@...>
>
> Steve, I just replied to your Simple Step posting...
>
> reply in text
>
> Steve Carlisle wrote:
>
> > From: "Steve Carlisle" <quatsein@...>
> >
> > Hans, thanks for the reply. There is so many possibilities
> > on this cnc hardware, it seems to confuse me at times.
> > I have seen numerous PIC/Stepper IC's but they seem to
> > operate fairly slowly (4800 baud).
>
> Lots of PIC project use PIC chip without the built in UART and the simply
> do the bit banger software UART...
> I use the PIC16C66 76 77 876 etc... The on board UART can do a very high
> Baud rate. beware of the early PIC16C73 it had a
> silicon problem and lost data above 9600 Baud...!
>
> > Am I right in that you want
> > to make an intelligent RS232 to step/direction convertor?
>
> YES !
>
> >
> > What software is out there that is compatible with RS232
> > and not propriotry? Need that knowledge!
>
> None that I know of, and I was expecting to do it myself, until Matt
> Shaver's reply.. See earlier posting.
> I correct that, last year when I was researching CNC I found a company in
> India that had a pretty neat program, 6 axis I seem to
> remember and could control
> multiple machines ALL using RS-232... When I send them a message asking if
> the software was available for printer port output...
> they said NO...
>
> If I can find that link I'll post it ..
> regards
> hansw
>
> >
> >
> > Steve
> >
> > ----------
> > From: hansw <hansw@...>
> > To: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO@onelist.com
> > Subject: Re: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO]EHP External Hardware Proposal
> > Date: Tuesday, February 01, 2000 7:50 PM
> >
> > From: hansw <hansw@...>
> >
> > Steve,
> > I posted several replies the details of the idea.
> >
> > In reply to your question...
> >
> > I do not see it as a board in the sense of a plug in ISA or PCI card...
> it
> > would be external and controlled by RS-232
> >
> > PC-----------RS232----------------EHP-------------Exisiting Driver
> > Hardware.
> >
> > The idea is to use RS232 much like Flash Cut... but it appears FLashCut
> > are holding their system details close to the chest...
> > I'm not interested in copying any ones idea, I can do it self...
> > See other postings about this subject ..
> >
> > regards
> > Hans Wedemeyer
> >
> > Steve Carlisle wrote:
> >
> > > From: "Steve Carlisle" <quatsein@...>
> > >
> > > It seems that most of the companys that sell data aquistion
> > > and control products list, LPT/Printer port compatible I/O
> > > systems. Would this be the type of board that would be
> > > considered for EHP?
> > >
> > > Steve
> > >
> > > ----------
> > > From: Bertho Boman <boman@...>
> > > To: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO@onelist.com
> > > Subject: Re: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO]EHP External Hardware Proposal
> > > Date: Tuesday, February 01, 2000 5:32 PM
> > >
> > > From: Bertho Boman <boman@...>
> > >
> > > More thoughts:
> > >
> > > I think Hans is going full speed but we need to talk about our goals.
> > >
> > > A few of my suggested goals:
> > >
> > > Keep it simple and do not reinvent the wheel. Make it possible for
> > persons
> > > to either use what is commonly available or easily
> > > modifiable.
> > >
> > > To make an external multi-axis, coordinated controller board is a
> > > significant undertaking. To further complicate it by adding
> > > the servo/stepper amplifiers on board would be a very large task to say
> > the
> > > least. Besides the hardware there would be tons of
> > > software required.
> > >
> > > Doing a one channel DSP (or Micro-P) based controller like I described
> is
> > a
> > > reasonable group project. That would separate the
> > > motion control software from the servo amplifier and the tach feed back
> > and
> > > it would also remove the need for an expensive
> > > custom PC I-O card. Actual I-O could be either through the parallel
> port
> > > or even opto isolated RS-232.
> > >
> > > The software to drive it only needs to be modified slightly: Instead of
> > > writing the the command to the PC I-O card D/A it sends
> > > it out on the printer port or the equivalent step speed command.
> Instead
> > > of reading the shaft encoder counter on the I-O card
> > > it reads it from the printer port. I think it would be relatively
> easy
> > to
> > > modify CNC software to do the above.
> > >
> > > That means multiple existing software could be used with slight
> > > modification since none of the timing or feedback loops are
> > > changed for the software. Only the local servo constants would be
> > modified
> > > but they are normally external anyhow.
> > >
> > > Neither Hans or I are happy to have to fiddle with Linux but if the
> > > installation and RT kernels issues are streamlined, EMC
> > > would be an excellent choice for the software. That would also remove
> > the
> > > need to modify EMC to make it work well with
> > > steppers. An other possible alternative would be if Hans or someone
> with
> > > the right experience can take a look at what it takes
> > > to run EMC under a slightly modified NT to get reasonable RT
> performance
> > as
> > > I mentioned in a previous post.
> > >
> > > A small single channel board with PWM amps that can be used with either
> > > steppers or servos sounds good. Hey, stack up six of
> > > them and we have a hexapod! It would solve several problems:
> > >
> > > 1. Pulse generator for steppers with no frequency limit or jumps
> > > 2. Amplifiers for plain steppers.
> > > 3. Encoder feedback for steppers.
> > > 4. Servo Amps with digital gain/ filter control.
> > > 5. Encoder, home and limit switches interface.
> > > 6. Electronic tach for servo feed back
> > > 7. No PC I-O card required
> > > 8. Easy opto isolation
> > > 9. Since it is a very low cost single channel board it can be used for
> > > simple motion control of just about anything.
> > >
> > > To the EMC "crew": Is it practical what I suggest and would you be
> > willing
> > > to support it?
> > >
> > > Hans and Windows programmers: Have you taken a look at what is required
> > to
> > > run EMC on NT?
> > >
> > > Who has DSP experience?
> > >
> > > Step up to the mic. Let your suggestions and comments be heard!
> > >
> > > If this is pulled through, I can have the boards built on my production
> > > lines at cost (I'm not in this to make money) as long as
> > > we can run a reasonable size batch each time. That way, software and
> > > non-electronic persons still can be part of a large group
> > > and we can standardize our effort.
> > >
> > > Bertho Boman
> > > =======================================
> > >
> > > > From: "Carlos Guillermo" <cnk@...>
> > > >
> > > > Hans -
> > > >
> > > > I've got a pretty basic question. Are we talking about offloading
> > > > interpolation duties to external hardware? As in sending an arc-move
> > > > command to the external micro and then letting it execute the
> > coordinated
> > > > motion? Or, are we talking about merely updating a count register
> for
> > > each
> > > > axis' "commanded position" and letting the external micro handle the
> > > servo
> > > > loop, PID gains and all? Or, are we just talking about blind stepper
> > > pulse
> > > > train generation...? I think I've heard a little of each from the
> > > various
> > > > people interested in this system architecture, and was just wondering
> > > what
> > > > the external micro's duties would be.
> > > >
> > > > Carlos Guillermo
> > >
> > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor
> ----------------------------
> > >
> > > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent
> > > Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW.
> > > <a href=" http://clickme.onelist.com/ad/NextcardCreative7SR ">Click
> > > Here</a>
> > >
> > >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >
> > > Welcome to CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO@...,an unmoderated list for the
> > > discussion of shop built systems in the above catagories.
> > > To Unsubscribe, read archives, change to or from digest.
> > > Go to: http://www.onelist.com/isregistered.cgi
> > > Log on, and you will go to Member Center, and you can make changes
> there.
> > > For the FAQ, go to http://www.ktmarketing.com/faq.html
> > > bill,
> > > List Manager
> > >
> > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor
> ----------------------------
> > >
> > > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent
> > > Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW.
> > > <a href=" http://clickme.onelist.com/ad/NextcardCreative7SR ">Click
> > Here</a>
> > >
> > >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >
> > > Welcome to CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO@...,an unmoderated list for the
> > discussion of shop built systems in the above catagories.
> > > To Unsubscribe, read archives, change to or from digest.
> > > Go to: http://www.onelist.com/isregistered.cgi
> > > Log on, and you will go to Member Center, and you can make changes
> there.
> > > For the FAQ, go to http://www.ktmarketing.com/faq.html
> > > bill,
> > > List Manager
> >
> > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ----------------------------
> >
> > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent
> > Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW.
> > <a href=" http://clickme.onelist.com/ad/NextcardCreative7SR ">Click
> > Here</a>
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Welcome to CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO@...,an unmoderated list for the
> > discussion of shop built systems in the above catagories.
> > To Unsubscribe, read archives, change to or from digest.
> > Go to: http://www.onelist.com/isregistered.cgi
> > Log on, and you will go to Member Center, and you can make changes there.
> > For the FAQ, go to http://www.ktmarketing.com/faq.html
> > bill,
> > List Manager
> >
> > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ----------------------------
> >
> > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 0.0 percent
> > Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW.
> > <a href=" http://clickme.onelist.com/ad/NextcardCreative7SR ">Click
> Here</a>
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Welcome to CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO@...,an unmoderated list for the
> discussion of shop built systems in the above catagories.
> > To Unsubscribe, read archives, change to or from digest.
> > Go to: http://www.onelist.com/isregistered.cgi
> > Log on, and you will go to Member Center, and you can make changes there.
> > For the FAQ, go to http://www.ktmarketing.com/faq.html
> > bill,
> > List Manager
>
> --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ----------------------------
>
> GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent
> Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW.
> <a href=" http://clickme.onelist.com/ad/NextcardCreative4SR ">Click
> Here</a>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Welcome to CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO@...,an unmoderated list for the
> discussion of shop built systems in the above catagories.
> To Unsubscribe, read archives, change to or from digest.
> Go to: http://www.onelist.com/isregistered.cgi
> Log on, and you will go to Member Center, and you can make changes there.
> For the FAQ, go to http://www.ktmarketing.com/faq.html
> bill,
> List Manager
>
> --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ----------------------------
>
> GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds. Get rates as low as 2.9 percent
> Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW.
> <a href=" http://clickme.onelist.com/ad/NextcardCreative4SR ">Click Here</a>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Welcome to CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO@...,an unmoderated list for the discussion of shop built systems in the above catagories.
> To Unsubscribe, read archives, change to or from digest.
> Go to: http://www.onelist.com/isregistered.cgi
> Log on, and you will go to Member Center, and you can make changes there.
> For the FAQ, go to http://www.ktmarketing.com/faq.html
> bill,
> List Manager