Re: Sherline Auto Tool Changer (mill/drills too!)

I would be more interested in the plans than anything else.
Paul

--- In CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO@yahoogroups.com, "torsten98001
<torsten@g...>" <torsten@g...> wrote:

> Marketing prospective?
> There are some sherline type machines out there
> that include toolchangers, those machines
> cost about $15000.- they are mostly bought for
> educational and industrial purposes.
> So there is a market, however to sell to
> the Hobby market you have to be a lot cheaper to
> make this attractive.
> So price will be the key question here, what can
> you make it for?
> Most Hobby guys would probably consider this a luxury
> item, but then if its really cool you may be able to
> bank on the bragging rights.:-)
>
> For the Mill/Drill market this would be a much tougher
> sell, because a 1/2 or 5/8 shank limitation would not
> go over well with the brought majority.
> But there may be a smaller specialised industrial market.
>
> Bottom line is to sell to the industrial market your
> toolchanger has to be very good.
> To sell to the Hobby people it has to be cheap.
>
> just my personal opinion
> Good Luck with your venture
>
>
> --- In CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO@yahoogroups.com, "ballendo <ballendo@y...>"
> <ballendo@y...> wrote:
> > Peter,Sherline CNC'ers, mill/drill CNC'ers,
> >
> > I've got one worked out that I'm positive will work. Not too
> > difficult to make, either...
> >
> > Now I'm wondering what someone would be willing to pay for an 8
> tool
> > autochanger for the sherline 5000 series mills? Is 8 tools

enough?

> >
> > Max diameter of toolshank is 1/2, but limiting this to 3/8 would
> > prob'ly make things less expensive overall. Is 3/8 shank

limitation

> > okay? Or must 1/2 shank tools be accomodated? What (shank)size
> > holders do you NEED?
> >
> > Shop air would be needed, so is requiring an air compressor okay?
> >
> > Do you want to buy it complete, or make it from plans/kit?
> >
> > What would you be willing to pay for a complete, bolt on unit?
> > A kit of parts?
> > Plans?
> > Which of these three options is most "real" for you?
> >
> >
> > If you make it, you will need the sherline lathe also (or some
> other
> > lathe of similar capability) Is this going to be a problem? If

so,

> > would you be interested if the kit had the lathe parts already

made?

> >
> > BTW, no mods to the mill need be made... This is a bolt-on-and-

go

> > item.
> >
> > The unit I have designed will scale to mill/drill operation as

well:

> >
> > Same questions as above, but max shank diameter can easily be

1/2.

> Is
> > 5/8 necessary ?
> >
> > The lathe parts could probably still be made on a sherline, but

a

> 7x
> > or 9x size would make things easier...
> >
> > So sherline and Mill/drill users, please let me know what your
> > answers to these questions are???
> >
> > Thank you in advance,
> >
> > Ballendo
> >
> > P.S. Reply offlist, if you want to preserve your "lurk status"
> here<G>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO@yahoogroups.com, "Peter Cruickshank
> > <crankshaft_sg@y...>" <crankshaft_sg@y...> wrote:
> > > Ballendo;
> > >
> > > Now, we're getting somewhere !
> > >
> > > Hmm, you're right, the sherline collet is 'handy' cos it ready
> made
> > > and seems like the logical choice, but the spindle locking and
> > > undoing the holder is a problem, you're right that it would be
> very
> > > difficult to undo, that was at the back of my mind, I guess I
> just
> > > did not want to acknowledge it !!!
> > >
> > > The current morse 1 taper limits the collet and cutter size as

it

> > > assumes that the cutter will locate inside the spindle, but
> there's
> > > no reason why an adaptor can not fit on the end on the spindle
> and
> > > interface to a quick change tool, I think there would still be
> > > sufficient Z travel even with an adaptor on the end of the
> spindle.
> > >
> > > We have gone through the first rule of troubleshooting which

is

> to
> > > elimante what it isn't (can't be done) now we only have to

find

> > what
> > > can - so it should be plain sailing from here on in :-)
> > >
> > > PeterC
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO@yahoogroups.com, "ballendo
> <ballendo@y...>"
> > > <ballendo@y...> wrote:
> > > > Terry,
> > > >
> > > > Most fully automatic changers use a similar technique.
> > > >
> > > > Tools are held in vee-shaped non locking single taper

holders.

> > > There
> > > > is a retention knob at the top of the holder, which is the
> small
> > > end
> > > > of the vee shape. Fingers inside the spindle are designed to
> > > capture
> > > > this knob and pull it upward (often using belleville washers
> for
> > > > the "drawing in" force). The interior of the spindle is

shaped

> so
> > > > that thes fingers lock in a failsafe way (as long as the
> > retention
> > > > knob doesn't break of where it screws into the holder...

Yes,

> it
> > > > happens).
> > > >
> > > > To change tools, hydraulic or air pressure is used to

compress

> > the
> > > > belleville washers, which drops the fingers a bit, which

allows

> > > them
> > > > to come out of the failsafe recess, which lets them release

the

> > > > retention knob, which allows the holder to drop out (into a
> > > > waiting "transfer arm", or into the lazy susan itself.
> > > >
> > > > Hope this makes sense,
> > > >
> > > > Ballendo
> > > >
> > > > P.S. Do a search of "CAT 40 holder", to see one of these

holders

> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO@yahoogroups.com, "James Owens"
> > > > <wotisname@l...> wrote:
> > > > > Hi Peter,
> > > > >
> > > > > This is the bit I'm asking about. I'm a where how manual
> change
> > > > millers hold
> > > > > the tooling/holder in place. I have a Bridgeport type
> machine.
> > > The
> > > > question
> > > > > is how do auto-changers, when they are fully automatic,

hold

> > the
> > > > tooling in
> > > > > the spindle. I can change a tool in a few seconds but I

have

> to
> > > be
> > > > there to
> > > > > do it. So if it is necessary for me to tighten a draw-bar

why

> > > use an
> > > > > auto-changer when the tooling held in a lazy-susan would

do?

> > > > >
> > > > > > The sherline tool holder simply screws into the spindle

on

> a
> > > high
> > > > > > precision thread & shoulder. There's a 3mm hole in the

tool

> > > holder
> > > > > > which allows you to locate in the holder to unscrew it.
> > > Sherline
> > > > > > claim that as the thread and location hole for the

cutter

> > > shank
> > > > are
> > > > > > created without removing the piece from the machine,

that

> the
> > > > > > accuracy is very high !
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I know that full size CNCs use a draw bar to pull the

tool

> > > holder
> > > > up
> > > > > > against the taper and locate it onto a dog, but I am

trying

> > to
> > > > think
> > > > > > of a way of using the existing available stuff.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Another way would be to make an adaptor to fit the

Spindle

> > and
> > > > then
> > > > > > make special tool holders to fit the adaptor.
> > > > >
> > > > > Regards,
> > > > >
> > > > > Terry