Re: Sherline Auto Tool Changer (mill/drills too!)

Peter,

I'm leaning toward 6 tools for the sherline size. Yes, there can be
an all-electric model. It will be more complex, more expensive, and
slower. Most who have weighed inhave not had a problem with the air
that you do...

Mach1, TurboCNC, EMC, Ah-ha artisan, and Flashcut can all be
controllers (The common thread is their ability to make and use
macros. Not saying that all are equally easy to use!<G>)

Design? Carousel holder, direct to spindle via shuttle.

The sherline fly cutter, boring head, and drill chuck present a bit
of a problem. Still working on it, but feel the changer has merit
even if these tooltypes are excluded. The drills can be held in split
bushings, as in screw machines, and the fly cutter operation can be
somewhatovercome with a large endmill as one of the 6 tools; leaving
only the boring head as a real desirable item, IMO.

Next question. If you could buy more parts (from sherline), you will
spend more, butneed to make less-- Would you considere this a good
choice?

Next, please rank the relative desirability of:
A) speed of operation,
B) cost
C) ease of building (what skills will a builder plan to already have?

(I'm assuming he or she already has a CNC sherine<G>)

And only one person so far (offlist) has mentioned anything regarding
price that includes a number!?! Come on, what would be a fair price
for the plans, kits, or parts?
Designing in the absence of market realities and restraints won't
help any of us get what we want. Except me<G>.

Thank you to all who have responded so far,

Ballendo

P.S. An interesting note: Designing something to be built by many
folks does not always result in a "much less expensive" product.
Sometimes things will cost more(in time to design, or materials, or
actual work required of the builder) so that the lowest common
denominator can have success; items which in a mfg. environment
are "no-brainers" For instance, designing "around"/away from welding
(or air compressors<G>)

--- In CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO@yahoogroups.com, "Peter Cruickshank
<crankshaft_sg@y...>" <crankshaft_sg@y...> wrote:

> Hi Ballendo;
>
> Well, if you ask for my wishlist it would be this..
>
> We are (all ??) hobyists, so to make it ourselves would be fun,
> challenging and of course much cheaper, so I would of course opt

for

> the plan with the option to buy certain parts which we can't or
> don't want to make !!
>
> I live in a small apartment in Singapore, and one thing I don't

have

> and can't have is an air compressor running in here, I would be out-
> of-here in minutes if I had compressor humming and vibrating my
> neighbours, so air is out of the question for me unless it's a

small

> 12 volt compressor with no storeage cylinder !
>
> Other that that, a 3/8" shank, (well actually a 10mm shank for
> everyone but the US !) would be more than adequate for the sherline
> and the work which will go through it.
>
> 8 Tools is more than enough, 6 would be enough for me, I could
> probably get away with less than that if it were to simplify or
> reduce the cost !
>
> Hope that helps, I understand that you may want to protect your
> design, but I would be interested how generically you have planned
> to go about this ??
>
> Cheers !
>
> peterC
>
> --- In CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO@yahoogroups.com, "ballendo <ballendo@y...>"
> <ballendo@y...> wrote:
> > Peter,Sherline CNC'ers, mill/drill CNC'ers,
> >
> > I've got one worked out that I'm positive will work. Not too
> > difficult to make, either...
> >
> > Now I'm wondering what someone would be willing to pay for an 8
> tool
> > autochanger for the sherline 5000 series mills? Is 8 tools

enough?

> >
> > Max diameter of toolshank is 1/2, but limiting this to 3/8 would
> > prob'ly make things less expensive overall. Is 3/8 shank
> limitation
> > okay? Or must 1/2 shank tools be accomodated? What (shank)size
> > holders do you NEED?
> >
> > Shop air would be needed, so is requiring an air compressor okay?
> >
> > Do you want to buy it complete, or make it from plans/kit?
> >
> > What would you be willing to pay for a complete, bolt on unit?
> > A kit of parts?
> > Plans?
> > Which of these three options is most "real" for you?
> >
> >
> > If you make it, you will need the sherline lathe also (or some
> other
> > lathe of similar capability) Is this going to be a problem? If

so,

> > would you be interested if the kit had the lathe parts already
> made?
> >
> > BTW, no mods to the mill need be made... This is a bolt-on-and-go
> > item.
> >
> > The unit I have designed will scale to mill/drill operation as
> well:
> >
> > Same questions as above, but max shank diameter can easily be

1/2.

> Is
> > 5/8 necessary ?
> >
> > The lathe parts could probably still be made on a sherline, but a
> 7x
> > or 9x size would make things easier...
> >
> > So sherline and Mill/drill users, please let me know what your
> > answers to these questions are???
> >
> > Thank you in advance,
> >
> > Ballendo
> >
> > P.S. Reply offlist, if you want to preserve your "lurk status"
> here<G>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO@yahoogroups.com, "Peter Cruickshank
> > <crankshaft_sg@y...>" <crankshaft_sg@y...> wrote:
> > > Ballendo;
> > >
> > > Now, we're getting somewhere !
> > >
> > > Hmm, you're right, the sherline collet is 'handy' cos it ready
> made
> > > and seems like the logical choice, but the spindle locking and
> > > undoing the holder is a problem, you're right that it would be
> very
> > > difficult to undo, that was at the back of my mind, I guess I
> just
> > > did not want to acknowledge it !!!
> > >
> > > The current morse 1 taper limits the collet and cutter size as
> it
> > > assumes that the cutter will locate inside the spindle, but
> there's
> > > no reason why an adaptor can not fit on the end on the spindle
> and
> > > interface to a quick change tool, I think there would still be
> > > sufficient Z travel even with an adaptor on the end of the
> spindle.
> > >
> > > We have gone through the first rule of troubleshooting which is
> to
> > > elimante what it isn't (can't be done) now we only have to find
> > what
> > > can - so it should be plain sailing from here on in :-)
> > >
> > > PeterC
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO@yahoogroups.com, "ballendo
> <ballendo@y...>"
> > > <ballendo@y...> wrote:
> > > > Terry,
> > > >
> > > > Most fully automatic changers use a similar technique.
> > > >
> > > > Tools are held in vee-shaped non locking single taper

holders.

> > > There
> > > > is a retention knob at the top of the holder, which is the
> small
> > > end
> > > > of the vee shape. Fingers inside the spindle are designed to
> > > capture
> > > > this knob and pull it upward (often using belleville washers
> for
> > > > the "drawing in" force). The interior of the spindle is

shaped

> so
> > > > that thes fingers lock in a failsafe way (as long as the
> > retention
> > > > knob doesn't break of where it screws into the holder... Yes,
> it
> > > > happens).
> > > >
> > > > To change tools, hydraulic or air pressure is used to

compress

> > the
> > > > belleville washers, which drops the fingers a bit, which
> allows
> > > them
> > > > to come out of the failsafe recess, which lets them release
> the
> > > > retention knob, which allows the holder to drop out (into a
> > > > waiting "transfer arm", or into the lazy susan itself.
> > > >
> > > > Hope this makes sense,
> > > >
> > > > Ballendo
> > > >
> > > > P.S. Do a search of "CAT 40 holder", to see one of these
> holders
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO@yahoogroups.com, "James Owens"
> > > > <wotisname@l...> wrote:
> > > > > Hi Peter,
> > > > >
> > > > > This is the bit I'm asking about. I'm a where how manual
> change
> > > > millers hold
> > > > > the tooling/holder in place. I have a Bridgeport type
> machine.
> > > The
> > > > question
> > > > > is how do auto-changers, when they are fully automatic,

hold

> > the
> > > > tooling in
> > > > > the spindle. I can change a tool in a few seconds but I

have

> to
> > > be
> > > > there to
> > > > > do it. So if it is necessary for me to tighten a draw-bar
> why
> > > use an
> > > > > auto-changer when the tooling held in a lazy-susan would do?
> > > > >
> > > > > > The sherline tool holder simply screws into the spindle

on

> a
> > > high
> > > > > > precision thread & shoulder. There's a 3mm hole in the
> tool
> > > holder
> > > > > > which allows you to locate in the holder to unscrew it.
> > > Sherline
> > > > > > claim that as the thread and location hole for the cutter
> > > shank
> > > > are
> > > > > > created without removing the piece from the machine, that
> the
> > > > > > accuracy is very high !
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I know that full size CNCs use a draw bar to pull the

tool

> > > holder
> > > > up
> > > > > > against the taper and locate it onto a dog, but I am
> trying
> > to
> > > > think
> > > > > > of a way of using the existing available stuff.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Another way would be to make an adaptor to fit the

Spindle

> > and
> > > > then
> > > > > > make special tool holders to fit the adaptor.
> > > > >
> > > > > Regards,
> > > > >
> > > > > Terry