RE: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] Re: Stepper questions
Posted by
Alan Marconett
on 2006-05-03 13:31:29 UTC
Hi Mariss,
Thanks for the comments. And I'd like to see the early high performance
unipolar design!
All of the circuits we used (dark ages) were decidedly LOW performance. A
few years ago I attempted to use one of the old drivers (L/R) with an old
SS50 NEMA #43 stepper to rotate a beam antenna (RDF), and I couldn't get
anywhere with it! I changed to a new design (CMD?) driver and stepper, and
it really spun!
Alan KM6VV
Thanks for the comments. And I'd like to see the early high performance
unipolar design!
All of the circuits we used (dark ages) were decidedly LOW performance. A
few years ago I attempted to use one of the old drivers (L/R) with an old
SS50 NEMA #43 stepper to rotate a beam antenna (RDF), and I couldn't get
anywhere with it! I changed to a new design (CMD?) driver and stepper, and
it really spun!
>That's a lot of reasons to use a bipolar drive. Several not so obvious!
> The two step motor phase windings don't share a common flux path and
> thus don't interact. Proof: try using a 4-wire motor as a
> transformer. Put a function generator on one winding (the "primary"),
> a scope on the other winding (the "secondary"). You will see nothing
> on the scope.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Unipolar drives have some severe drawbacks in high performance
> designs. It is because a single center-tapped winding DOES act as a
> transformer and the consequences are all bad:
>
> 1) The center-tap goes to +V supply. When one end-wire is taken to
> GND by a transistor (the "on" one), the other end-wire goes to twice
> the +V supply. This voltage is seen by the "off" transistor.
>
> Transistors in an 80V bipolar drive see 80V stresses, transistors in
> an 80V unipolar drive see at least 160V stresses.
>
> 2) Inductive energy recovery. The "off" center-tap to end-wire
> winding carries (L*I^2)/2 energy when turning off. There is no easy
> means of returning it to the supply, so it must be dissipated
> (wasted). Usually zener clamps do this dirty work.
>
> A bipolar drive easily returns this energy back to the power supply
> for re-use.
>
> 3) Circuit topology. A high-performance (switching type) unipolar
> drive requires 3 transistors and 3 power diodes per winding to
> efficiently handle energy return. However the transistors still
> see "twice supply voltage" stresses.
>
> At this point the unipolar drive requires 12 power devices vs. a
> bipolar drive's 8, the unipolar drive transistors see twice the
> voltage of those in a bipolar drive and 6 motor wire connections are
> required vs. 4 for a bipolar drive. All that to get the same
> performance as a bipolar drive.
>
> 4) Failure modes. A failed transistor in a high performance unipolar
> drive cooks the motor. A failed transistor in a bipolar drive shorts
> the supply, blows a fuse and spares the motor.
>
> Most designers ask "All that for what?" Then they discard the
> unipolar drive topology and go for the bipolar one.
> --------------------Best regards,
>
> If anyone is interested, I can try to dig up a high performance
> unipolar drive power section design and post it. Something I designed
> and we sold about 30 years ago. I may still have it around on some
> old 10MB hard-drive.:-)
>
> Mariss
>
>
Alan KM6VV
Discussion Thread
ballendo
2006-05-01 06:07:54 UTC
COMPLETE 3 axis CNC electronics package (plug-n-cut, ready to go)
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2006-05-01 22:06:06 UTC
Re: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] COMPLETE 3 axis CNC electronics package (plug-n-cut, ready to go)
Paul Kelly
2006-05-01 22:22:05 UTC
RE: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] COMPLETE 3 axis CNC electronics package (plug-n-cut, ready to go)
ballendo
2006-05-01 22:43:44 UTC
Re: COMPLETE 3 axis CNC electronics package (plug-n-cut, ready to go)
juan gelt
2006-05-02 03:21:13 UTC
RE: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] COMPLETE 3 axis CNC electronics package (plug-n-cut, ready to go)
Graham Stabler
2006-05-02 03:28:47 UTC
Re: COMPLETE 3 axis CNC electronics package (plug-n-cut, ready to go)
ballendo
2006-05-02 04:26:35 UTC
Re: COMPLETE 3 axis CNC electronics package (plug-n-cut, ready to go)
Alan Marconett
2006-05-02 08:38:44 UTC
RE: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] COMPLETE 3 axis CNC electronics package (plug-n-cut, ready to go)
John Mickelson
2006-05-02 10:44:51 UTC
Re: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] Re: COMPLETE 3 axis CNC electronics package (plug-n-cut, ready to go)
ballendo
2006-05-02 16:54:22 UTC
Re: COMPLETE 3 axis CNC electronics package (plug-n-cut, ready to go)
Darren Lucke
2006-05-02 17:08:53 UTC
Re: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] Re: COMPLETE 3 axis CNC electronics package (plug-n-cut, ready to go)
ballendo
2006-05-02 17:14:14 UTC
Re: COMPLETE 3 axis CNC electronics package (plug-n-cut, ready to go)
Alan Marconett
2006-05-02 18:58:54 UTC
Re: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] Re: COMPLETE 3 axis CNC electronics package (plug-n-cut, ready to go)
John Dammeyer
2006-05-02 19:17:47 UTC
RE: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] Re: COMPLETE 3 axis CNC electronics package (plug-n-cut, ready to go)
turbulatordude
2006-05-02 21:21:55 UTC
Re: COMPLETE 3 axis CNC electronics package (plug-n-cut, ready to go)
Dave Halliday
2006-05-02 21:26:59 UTC
RE: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] Re: COMPLETE 3 axis CNC electronics package (plug-n-cut, ready to go)
Tony Jeffree
2006-05-02 22:42:55 UTC
How much torque is enough? (Was: COMPLETE 3 axis CNC...)
Tony Jeffree
2006-05-02 22:46:33 UTC
Re: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] Re: COMPLETE 3 axis CNC electronics package (plug-n-cut, ready to go)
Andrew Werby
2006-05-02 23:07:24 UTC
Re: Re: Re: COMPLETE 3 axis CNC electronics package (plug-n-cut, ready to go)
ballendo
2006-05-02 23:33:02 UTC
Re: How much torque is enough? (Was: COMPLETE 3 axis CNC...)
turbulatordude
2006-05-03 06:13:26 UTC
Re: Steppers, bi- vs uni ?? who cares ?
turbulatordude
2006-05-03 06:21:50 UTC
Re: How much torque is enough? (Was: COMPLETE 3 axis CNC...)
Alan Marconett
2006-05-03 08:20:56 UTC
RE: Stepper questions
Andy Wander
2006-05-03 08:24:55 UTC
RE: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] RE: Stepper questions
Alan Marconett
2006-05-03 09:01:06 UTC
RE: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] RE: Stepper questions
Alan Marconett
2006-05-03 09:15:07 UTC
RE: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] Re: COMPLETE 3 axis CNC electronics package (plug-n-cut, ready to go)
Tony Jeffree
2006-05-03 09:39:28 UTC
Re: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] Re: How much torque is enough? (Was: COMPLETE 3 axis CNC...)
Roy J. Tellason
2006-05-03 09:42:21 UTC
Re: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] RE: Stepper questions
Jon Elson
2006-05-03 10:05:16 UTC
Re: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] RE: Stepper questions
Mariss Freimanis
2006-05-03 10:15:12 UTC
Re: Stepper questions
Mariss Freimanis
2006-05-03 10:38:26 UTC
Re: COMPLETE 3 axis CNC electronics package (plug-n-cut, ready to go)
John Dammeyer
2006-05-03 10:43:10 UTC
RE: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] RE: Stepper questions
Mariss Freimanis
2006-05-03 10:54:30 UTC
Re: Stepper questions
Phil Mattison
2006-05-03 10:58:44 UTC
Re: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] RE: Stepper questions
Mariss Freimanis
2006-05-03 11:22:52 UTC
Re: Stepper questions
Roy J. Tellason
2006-05-03 11:48:38 UTC
Re: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] RE: Stepper questions
Alan Marconett
2006-05-03 13:24:28 UTC
RE: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] RE: Stepper questions
Alan Marconett
2006-05-03 13:31:29 UTC
RE: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] Re: Stepper questions
Alan Marconett
2006-05-03 13:46:49 UTC
RE: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] Re: COMPLETE 3 axis CNC electronics package (plug-n-cut, ready to go)
Alan Marconett
2006-05-03 14:05:41 UTC
RE: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] RE: Stepper questions
Alan Marconett
2006-05-03 14:08:49 UTC
RE: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] RE: Stepper questions
John Dammeyer
2006-05-03 14:47:15 UTC
RE: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] RE: Stepper questions
ballendo
2006-05-03 15:00:40 UTC
Almost plug-n-play??? was Re: Steppers, bi- vs uni ?? who cares ?
R Rogers
2006-05-03 15:15:20 UTC
Re: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] Almost plug-n-play??? was Re: Steppers, bi- vs uni ?? who cares ?
juan gelt
2006-05-03 15:15:51 UTC
Re: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] Almost plug-n-play??? was Re: Steppers, bi- vs uni ?? who cares ?
ballendo
2006-05-03 16:29:58 UTC
The best stepper driver??? was Re: Stepper questions
ballendo
2006-05-03 16:46:32 UTC
Re: Stepper questions
ballendo
2006-05-03 16:48:36 UTC
Almost plug-n-play??? was Re: Steppers, bi- vs uni ?? who cares ?
ballendo
2006-05-03 16:52:30 UTC
Almost plug-n-play??? was Re: Steppers, bi- vs uni ?? who cares ?
Wayne Weedon
2006-05-03 16:52:50 UTC
Re: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] The best stepper driver??? was Re: Stepper questions
R Rogers
2006-05-03 17:19:46 UTC
Re: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] The best stepper driver??? was Re: Stepper questions
ballendo
2006-05-03 17:41:09 UTC
The best stepper driver??? was Re: Stepper questions
Mariss Freimanis
2006-05-03 18:04:12 UTC
The best stepper driver??? was Re: Stepper questions
turbulatordude
2006-05-03 18:16:44 UTC
Re: COMPLETE 3 axis CNC electronics package (plug-n-cut, ready to go)
Mariss Freimanis
2006-05-03 18:29:22 UTC
The best stepper driver??? was Re: Stepper questions
turbulatordude
2006-05-03 18:30:10 UTC
Almost plug-n-play??? was Re: Steppers, bi- vs uni ?? who cares ?
turbulatordude
2006-05-03 18:39:26 UTC
The best stepper driver??? was Re: Stepper questions
Alan Marconett
2006-05-03 18:54:16 UTC
Re: stepper questions
Jon Elson
2006-05-03 19:20:11 UTC
Re: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] RE: Stepper questions
Jon Elson
2006-05-03 19:28:13 UTC
Re: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] RE: Stepper questions
Jon Elson
2006-05-03 19:40:29 UTC
Re: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] RE: Stepper questions
jeffalanp
2006-05-03 19:56:40 UTC
The best stepper driver??? was Re: Stepper questions
juan gelt
2006-05-03 21:48:03 UTC
Re: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] Almost plug-n-play??? was Re: Steppers, bi- vs uni ?? who cares ?
Mariss Freimanis
2006-05-03 22:00:36 UTC
The best stepper driver??? was Re: Stepper questions
Mariss Freimanis
2006-05-03 22:46:47 UTC
The best stepper driver??? was Re: Stepper questions
JanRwl@A...
2006-05-03 22:51:27 UTC
Re: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] The best stepper driver??? was Re: Stepper questions
Mariss Freimanis
2006-05-03 22:58:10 UTC
Almost plug-n-play??? was Re: Steppers, bi- vs uni ?? who cares ?
juan gelt
2006-05-04 00:01:41 UTC
Re: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] Almost plug-n-play??? was Re: Steppers, bi- vs uni ?? who cares ?
Tony Jeffree
2006-05-04 00:08:20 UTC
Re: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] Almost plug-n-play??? was Re: Steppers, bi- vs uni ?? who cares ?
ballendo
2006-05-04 02:36:42 UTC
The best stepper driver??? was Re: Stepper questions
ballendo
2006-05-04 02:41:39 UTC
The best stepper driver??? was Re: Stepper questions
ballendo
2006-05-04 03:20:04 UTC
Almost plug-n-play??? was Re: Steppers, bi- vs uni ?? who cares ?
Graham Stabler
2006-05-04 03:56:27 UTC
Almost plug-n-play??? was Re: Steppers, bi- vs uni ?? who cares ?
juan gelt
2006-05-04 04:44:26 UTC
Re: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] Almost plug-n-play??? going O.T.
juan gelt
2006-05-04 04:54:17 UTC
Re: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] Almost plug-n-play??? going O.T.
art
2006-05-04 06:40:05 UTC
Re: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] Almost plug-n-play??? going O.T.
JCullins
2006-05-04 07:07:52 UTC
Re: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] Almost plug-n-play??? going O.T.
Wayne Weedon
2006-05-04 07:14:27 UTC
Re: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] The best stepper driver??? was Re: Stepper questions
caudlet
2006-05-04 07:43:32 UTC
Re: Almost plug-n-play??? going O.T. {moderator WARNING!}
R Rogers
2006-05-04 07:54:58 UTC
Re: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] Almost plug-n-play??? was Re: Steppers, bi- vs uni ?? who cares ?
jeffalanp
2006-05-04 08:28:48 UTC
The best stepper driver??? was Re: Stepper questions
jeffalanp
2006-05-04 09:32:27 UTC
The best stepper driver??? was Re: Stepper questions
Mariss Freimanis
2006-05-04 09:57:55 UTC
The best stepper driver??? was Re: Stepper questions
Aaron
2006-05-05 08:46:42 UTC
Re: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] Re: COMPLETE 3 axis CNC electronics package (plug-n-cut, ready to go)
Mariss Freimanis
2006-05-05 09:48:24 UTC
Re: COMPLETE 3 axis CNC electronics package (plug-n-cut, ready to go)
wthomas@g...
2006-05-05 10:02:41 UTC
W.E.T. CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] : Stepper speed question