CAD CAM EDM DRO - Yahoo Group Archive

RE: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] Re: Stepper questions

on 2006-05-03 13:31:29 UTC
Hi Mariss,

Thanks for the comments. And I'd like to see the early high performance
unipolar design!

All of the circuits we used (dark ages) were decidedly LOW performance. A
few years ago I attempted to use one of the old drivers (L/R) with an old
SS50 NEMA #43 stepper to rotate a beam antenna (RDF), and I couldn't get
anywhere with it! I changed to a new design (CMD?) driver and stepper, and
it really spun!

>
> The two step motor phase windings don't share a common flux path and
> thus don't interact. Proof: try using a 4-wire motor as a
> transformer. Put a function generator on one winding (the "primary"),
> a scope on the other winding (the "secondary"). You will see nothing
> on the scope.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Unipolar drives have some severe drawbacks in high performance
> designs. It is because a single center-tapped winding DOES act as a
> transformer and the consequences are all bad:
>
> 1) The center-tap goes to +V supply. When one end-wire is taken to
> GND by a transistor (the "on" one), the other end-wire goes to twice
> the +V supply. This voltage is seen by the "off" transistor.
>
> Transistors in an 80V bipolar drive see 80V stresses, transistors in
> an 80V unipolar drive see at least 160V stresses.
>
> 2) Inductive energy recovery. The "off" center-tap to end-wire
> winding carries (L*I^2)/2 energy when turning off. There is no easy
> means of returning it to the supply, so it must be dissipated
> (wasted). Usually zener clamps do this dirty work.
>
> A bipolar drive easily returns this energy back to the power supply
> for re-use.
>
> 3) Circuit topology. A high-performance (switching type) unipolar
> drive requires 3 transistors and 3 power diodes per winding to
> efficiently handle energy return. However the transistors still
> see "twice supply voltage" stresses.
>
> At this point the unipolar drive requires 12 power devices vs. a
> bipolar drive's 8, the unipolar drive transistors see twice the
> voltage of those in a bipolar drive and 6 motor wire connections are
> required vs. 4 for a bipolar drive. All that to get the same
> performance as a bipolar drive.
>
> 4) Failure modes. A failed transistor in a high performance unipolar
> drive cooks the motor. A failed transistor in a bipolar drive shorts
> the supply, blows a fuse and spares the motor.
>
> Most designers ask "All that for what?" Then they discard the
> unipolar drive topology and go for the bipolar one.

That's a lot of reasons to use a bipolar drive. Several not so obvious!


> --------------------
>
> If anyone is interested, I can try to dig up a high performance
> unipolar drive power section design and post it. Something I designed
> and we sold about 30 years ago. I may still have it around on some
> old 10MB hard-drive.:-)
>
> Mariss
>
>

Best regards,

Alan KM6VV

Discussion Thread

ballendo 2006-05-01 06:07:54 UTC COMPLETE 3 axis CNC electronics package (plug-n-cut, ready to go) John Mickelson 2006-05-01 22:06:06 UTC Re: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] COMPLETE 3 axis CNC electronics package (plug-n-cut, ready to go) Paul Kelly 2006-05-01 22:22:05 UTC RE: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] COMPLETE 3 axis CNC electronics package (plug-n-cut, ready to go) ballendo 2006-05-01 22:43:44 UTC Re: COMPLETE 3 axis CNC electronics package (plug-n-cut, ready to go) juan gelt 2006-05-02 03:21:13 UTC RE: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] COMPLETE 3 axis CNC electronics package (plug-n-cut, ready to go) Graham Stabler 2006-05-02 03:28:47 UTC Re: COMPLETE 3 axis CNC electronics package (plug-n-cut, ready to go) ballendo 2006-05-02 04:26:35 UTC Re: COMPLETE 3 axis CNC electronics package (plug-n-cut, ready to go) Alan Marconett 2006-05-02 08:38:44 UTC RE: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] COMPLETE 3 axis CNC electronics package (plug-n-cut, ready to go) John Mickelson 2006-05-02 10:44:51 UTC Re: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] Re: COMPLETE 3 axis CNC electronics package (plug-n-cut, ready to go) ballendo 2006-05-02 16:54:22 UTC Re: COMPLETE 3 axis CNC electronics package (plug-n-cut, ready to go) Darren Lucke 2006-05-02 17:08:53 UTC Re: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] Re: COMPLETE 3 axis CNC electronics package (plug-n-cut, ready to go) ballendo 2006-05-02 17:14:14 UTC Re: COMPLETE 3 axis CNC electronics package (plug-n-cut, ready to go) Alan Marconett 2006-05-02 18:58:54 UTC Re: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] Re: COMPLETE 3 axis CNC electronics package (plug-n-cut, ready to go) John Dammeyer 2006-05-02 19:17:47 UTC RE: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] Re: COMPLETE 3 axis CNC electronics package (plug-n-cut, ready to go) turbulatordude 2006-05-02 21:21:55 UTC Re: COMPLETE 3 axis CNC electronics package (plug-n-cut, ready to go) Dave Halliday 2006-05-02 21:26:59 UTC RE: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] Re: COMPLETE 3 axis CNC electronics package (plug-n-cut, ready to go) Tony Jeffree 2006-05-02 22:42:55 UTC How much torque is enough? (Was: COMPLETE 3 axis CNC...) Tony Jeffree 2006-05-02 22:46:33 UTC Re: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] Re: COMPLETE 3 axis CNC electronics package (plug-n-cut, ready to go) Andrew Werby 2006-05-02 23:07:24 UTC Re: Re: Re: COMPLETE 3 axis CNC electronics package (plug-n-cut, ready to go) ballendo 2006-05-02 23:33:02 UTC Re: How much torque is enough? (Was: COMPLETE 3 axis CNC...) turbulatordude 2006-05-03 06:13:26 UTC Re: Steppers, bi- vs uni ?? who cares ? turbulatordude 2006-05-03 06:21:50 UTC Re: How much torque is enough? (Was: COMPLETE 3 axis CNC...) Alan Marconett 2006-05-03 08:20:56 UTC RE: Stepper questions Andy Wander 2006-05-03 08:24:55 UTC RE: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] RE: Stepper questions Alan Marconett 2006-05-03 09:01:06 UTC RE: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] RE: Stepper questions Alan Marconett 2006-05-03 09:15:07 UTC RE: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] Re: COMPLETE 3 axis CNC electronics package (plug-n-cut, ready to go) Tony Jeffree 2006-05-03 09:39:28 UTC Re: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] Re: How much torque is enough? (Was: COMPLETE 3 axis CNC...) Roy J. Tellason 2006-05-03 09:42:21 UTC Re: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] RE: Stepper questions Jon Elson 2006-05-03 10:05:16 UTC Re: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] RE: Stepper questions Mariss Freimanis 2006-05-03 10:15:12 UTC Re: Stepper questions Mariss Freimanis 2006-05-03 10:38:26 UTC Re: COMPLETE 3 axis CNC electronics package (plug-n-cut, ready to go) John Dammeyer 2006-05-03 10:43:10 UTC RE: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] RE: Stepper questions Mariss Freimanis 2006-05-03 10:54:30 UTC Re: Stepper questions Phil Mattison 2006-05-03 10:58:44 UTC Re: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] RE: Stepper questions Mariss Freimanis 2006-05-03 11:22:52 UTC Re: Stepper questions Roy J. Tellason 2006-05-03 11:48:38 UTC Re: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] RE: Stepper questions Alan Marconett 2006-05-03 13:24:28 UTC RE: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] RE: Stepper questions Alan Marconett 2006-05-03 13:31:29 UTC RE: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] Re: Stepper questions Alan Marconett 2006-05-03 13:46:49 UTC RE: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] Re: COMPLETE 3 axis CNC electronics package (plug-n-cut, ready to go) Alan Marconett 2006-05-03 14:05:41 UTC RE: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] RE: Stepper questions Alan Marconett 2006-05-03 14:08:49 UTC RE: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] RE: Stepper questions John Dammeyer 2006-05-03 14:47:15 UTC RE: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] RE: Stepper questions ballendo 2006-05-03 15:00:40 UTC Almost plug-n-play??? was Re: Steppers, bi- vs uni ?? who cares ? R Rogers 2006-05-03 15:15:20 UTC Re: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] Almost plug-n-play??? was Re: Steppers, bi- vs uni ?? who cares ? juan gelt 2006-05-03 15:15:51 UTC Re: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] Almost plug-n-play??? was Re: Steppers, bi- vs uni ?? who cares ? ballendo 2006-05-03 16:29:58 UTC The best stepper driver??? was Re: Stepper questions ballendo 2006-05-03 16:46:32 UTC Re: Stepper questions ballendo 2006-05-03 16:48:36 UTC Almost plug-n-play??? was Re: Steppers, bi- vs uni ?? who cares ? ballendo 2006-05-03 16:52:30 UTC Almost plug-n-play??? was Re: Steppers, bi- vs uni ?? who cares ? Wayne Weedon 2006-05-03 16:52:50 UTC Re: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] The best stepper driver??? was Re: Stepper questions R Rogers 2006-05-03 17:19:46 UTC Re: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] The best stepper driver??? was Re: Stepper questions ballendo 2006-05-03 17:41:09 UTC The best stepper driver??? was Re: Stepper questions Mariss Freimanis 2006-05-03 18:04:12 UTC The best stepper driver??? was Re: Stepper questions turbulatordude 2006-05-03 18:16:44 UTC Re: COMPLETE 3 axis CNC electronics package (plug-n-cut, ready to go) Mariss Freimanis 2006-05-03 18:29:22 UTC The best stepper driver??? was Re: Stepper questions turbulatordude 2006-05-03 18:30:10 UTC Almost plug-n-play??? was Re: Steppers, bi- vs uni ?? who cares ? turbulatordude 2006-05-03 18:39:26 UTC The best stepper driver??? was Re: Stepper questions Alan Marconett 2006-05-03 18:54:16 UTC Re: stepper questions Jon Elson 2006-05-03 19:20:11 UTC Re: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] RE: Stepper questions Jon Elson 2006-05-03 19:28:13 UTC Re: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] RE: Stepper questions Jon Elson 2006-05-03 19:40:29 UTC Re: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] RE: Stepper questions jeffalanp 2006-05-03 19:56:40 UTC The best stepper driver??? was Re: Stepper questions juan gelt 2006-05-03 21:48:03 UTC Re: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] Almost plug-n-play??? was Re: Steppers, bi- vs uni ?? who cares ? Mariss Freimanis 2006-05-03 22:00:36 UTC The best stepper driver??? was Re: Stepper questions Mariss Freimanis 2006-05-03 22:46:47 UTC The best stepper driver??? was Re: Stepper questions JanRwl@A... 2006-05-03 22:51:27 UTC Re: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] The best stepper driver??? was Re: Stepper questions Mariss Freimanis 2006-05-03 22:58:10 UTC Almost plug-n-play??? was Re: Steppers, bi- vs uni ?? who cares ? juan gelt 2006-05-04 00:01:41 UTC Re: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] Almost plug-n-play??? was Re: Steppers, bi- vs uni ?? who cares ? Tony Jeffree 2006-05-04 00:08:20 UTC Re: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] Almost plug-n-play??? was Re: Steppers, bi- vs uni ?? who cares ? ballendo 2006-05-04 02:36:42 UTC The best stepper driver??? was Re: Stepper questions ballendo 2006-05-04 02:41:39 UTC The best stepper driver??? was Re: Stepper questions ballendo 2006-05-04 03:20:04 UTC Almost plug-n-play??? was Re: Steppers, bi- vs uni ?? who cares ? Graham Stabler 2006-05-04 03:56:27 UTC Almost plug-n-play??? was Re: Steppers, bi- vs uni ?? who cares ? juan gelt 2006-05-04 04:44:26 UTC Re: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] Almost plug-n-play??? going O.T. juan gelt 2006-05-04 04:54:17 UTC Re: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] Almost plug-n-play??? going O.T. art 2006-05-04 06:40:05 UTC Re: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] Almost plug-n-play??? going O.T. JCullins 2006-05-04 07:07:52 UTC Re: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] Almost plug-n-play??? going O.T. Wayne Weedon 2006-05-04 07:14:27 UTC Re: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] The best stepper driver??? was Re: Stepper questions caudlet 2006-05-04 07:43:32 UTC Re: Almost plug-n-play??? going O.T. {moderator WARNING!} R Rogers 2006-05-04 07:54:58 UTC Re: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] Almost plug-n-play??? was Re: Steppers, bi- vs uni ?? who cares ? jeffalanp 2006-05-04 08:28:48 UTC The best stepper driver??? was Re: Stepper questions jeffalanp 2006-05-04 09:32:27 UTC The best stepper driver??? was Re: Stepper questions Mariss Freimanis 2006-05-04 09:57:55 UTC The best stepper driver??? was Re: Stepper questions Aaron 2006-05-05 08:46:42 UTC Re: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] Re: COMPLETE 3 axis CNC electronics package (plug-n-cut, ready to go) Mariss Freimanis 2006-05-05 09:48:24 UTC Re: COMPLETE 3 axis CNC electronics package (plug-n-cut, ready to go) wthomas@g... 2006-05-05 10:02:41 UTC W.E.T. CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] : Stepper speed question