Re: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] Re: Re: re:hand jive

ballendo@... wrote:

> P.S. I wonder what the guys fifty years from now will say, when they
> have been "raised up" using jog buttons and jogwheels, instead of the
> handwheels WE began with??? I really do believe you "feel" its
> faster because you have been "programmed" by your experience to
> believe so, and therefore it IS faster for you! Notice I'm not
> disputing your claim to doing some things faster by hand control;
> just wondering if you'd feel the same if all your past experience
> was "cut by wire"???

50 years from now, you'll probably be printing your parts out from what
is known today as rapid prototype machines, but in any material. Might
even be able to tell the computer what you want verbally, as Scotty
tried to do in a Star Trek movie (having gone back in time, he's turned
loose on a Mac, picks up the mouse and start talking to it, pretty funny
scene)

When I first started learning CNC programming, I was struggling with
some complicated parts in the manual mill as the CNC was busy. I made
mention to another machinist that the parts should have been CNC'd. He
replied he knew folks that could make the parts before I could even
program them. Well, he wasn't far off. Programming is a lot easier and
faster today, but still many times a part can be done faster manually.
Now, I'm probably really going to tick off a lot of folks here, but I
make my living at this and have devoted huge amounts of time learning
all I can. CNC is often used as a crutch to overcome a lack of manual
machining skills. Crucify me if you want, but it's true. However, a
crutch is a tool also, and if someone can make a part via CNC that he
couldn't make manually, in the end what's the difference?

For me, it's a matter of what is easiest. If I have to drill a 1/4"
hole, I use the manual or a drill press. If I need a 6" hole in a plate,
I'll interpolate it. That is a lot faster to setup, program, and run,
that to pull the vise, setup the rotary table, and crank the little
handle dozens or hundreds of times.
I'd rather watch a machine do what I told it and stand there sipping my
coffee, but it's simply not always the fastest nor easiest.
I have some set little programs for say, squaring the end of something
hanging out the side of the vise, or flycutting, or interpolating a
single hole. I just go in and edit a few numbers and make chips.
But even with stuff like this, it's often faster to go manual for one of
a kind. I can make fairly complex assemblies from my head, with no
drawings. Most often, this is when I'm pulling stuff out of the junk bin
that looks something like the desired end product, you know, cut to fit.
I do get sorta irked when it's proclaimed that manual is a thing of the
past. Might become scarce, but it'll always fill a nitch. Becoming
evangelical about CNC is a personal choice. Just because some folks
can't imagine fairly complex manual work being done as fast or faster as
CNC doesn't mean it can't happen.
For the fellow with one machine that wants to crank a handle now and
then, I say GREAT! Keeps those skills alive! I can hardly wait until I
have the time and $$ to reconstruct an old line shaft driven
machine/blacksmith shop run by a steam engine. Why on earth would I want
to play with forged tooling and painfully slow machining? Just because I
wanna, reason enough.

Back in the late 70's, while working as a welder for about $6/hr, I had
a friend offer to get me into a CNC machine shop at a start wage of
$11/hr. Knowing nothing about machining at the time, I declined,
realizing I'd be mostly training to load parts and push buttons. I
decided someday, somehow, I'd learn to really machine. Lot has happened
in 30 years, but I don't regret that choice. I barely consider myself a
journyman, and yet I know of no machinists younger than me that can
touch me in a proto environment (2-1/2D that is). As I build my
business, I am finding a real nitch dealing in work quantities that are
too small for the full-on (and heavily indebted) CNC shops to deal with.
I'd never have made it this far without my manual skills.

Ballendo, I've really blabbered here but good, please don't think I got
on a bender over your comments, I understand the point you were raising.
Like I said, I get torqued over "manual is futile, you will be
CNCimilated" Sort of like the .45 vs 9mm, Ford vs Chevy, etc etc
debates. To each his own, and more power to anyone wishing to learn or
retain older skills. At the risk of offending some folks, I just thought
I'd vent my feelings on the debate.
'scuse me while I go dig out my asbestos shorts....

Jon