Re: re: rE: RE:hand jive

Jon,

No need for the 'bestos.

I don't think there's anything you said I'd "fire up" about. I have
been a champion for retaining manual skills my whole life! And
definitely believe we'll lose something when the CNC systems
are "perfected".

For the newbie, the "happy accident" is factored out. We won't/don't
DISCOVER the best feedrate; we read a book and assume it. Without
experience to guide us as to what we're hearing/seeing; and the
control is making sure that our "feedrate" is constant(no tired or
excited arm to "drift" into the happy accidental discovery of
a "better" feedrate!)

I do think it is interesting that the responses in this thread
AGAINST handwheels came from 1)an experienced guy who prob'ly has
hand skills "to burn"- Darrell G and: 2)an intelligent beginner(to
the metalworking world)- Alan M

>When I first started learning CNC programming, I was struggling with
>some complicated parts in the manual mill as the CNC was busy. I made
>mention to another machinist that the parts should have been CNC'd.
>He replied he knew folks that could make the parts before I could
>even program them. Well, he wasn't far off. Programming is a lot
>easier and faster today, but still many times a part can be done
>faster manually.

The point I'm making which seems lost is that if you use the "jog"
function (keys or wheel), YOU ARE MANUAL MACHINING! You're
just "turning" a different "wheel"(by pushing a button)! You STILL
stop when the numbers (which are on screen instead of on wheel) say
what you want/need them to say. And keep "turning"(pressing)until
they do!

>Now, I'm probably really going to tick off a lot of folks here, but I
>make my living at this and have devoted huge amounts of time learning
>all I can. CNC is often used as a crutch to overcome a lack of manual
>machining skills. Crucify me if you want, but it's true. However, a
>crutch is a tool also, and if someone can make a part via CNC that he
>couldn't make manually, in the end what's the difference?

Exactly! I sure don't want to "file" the threads into my bolts!!

>I can make fairly complex assemblies from my head, with no
>drawings. Most often, this is when I'm pulling stuff out of the junk
>bin that looks something like the desired end product, you know, cut
>to fit.
>I do get sorta irked when it's proclaimed that manual is a thing of
>the past. Might become scarce, but it'll always fill a nitch.

Again, it's just the DEFINITION of "manual" that changes. Turn a
handwheel, or push a "jog" key.

>Just because some folks can't imagine fairly complex manual work
>being done as fast or faster as CNC doesn't mean it can't happen.

I would LOVE to be able to experience the production of the wartime
(WWII) factories. Not saying I'd love the environment, but every time
I'm at an airshow and see the insides of those old birds, and realise
EVERY PART was made without CNC. Or NC. Sure, tracers and... BUT,...
WOW! Designed w/o computers, too. Wait a minute! Same principle as
we're discussin'. Just that the "computer" was a stick-thing you
carried in your pocket. And between yer ears!

>Keeps those skills alive!<s>
>Just because I wanna, reason enough.<s>
>I decided someday, somehow, I'd learn to really machine. Lot has
>happened in 30 years, but I don't regret that choice.

This is the really important thing,IMO. The desire to get it right.
Sometime. Somewhere. Some way.

>I'd never have made it this far without my manual skills.

MY manual skills make me a much better machinist/person. Can I say
that?! Can I actually admit to the world that I believe "manual
skills" make a "better" person? Well, I DO!

Ballendo