Re: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] Re: CAD experiment entry

Hi Tim and All:
       Just a brief note to let you know that I understand your position.  I put my first product on the market in 1965 and was promptly beat by another person with the same design.  How he lowered the price was he made his unit of three pieces vs my one piece from extruded tube.  He had only 1/4 lb of scrap aluminum vs my 3 lbs of scrap and only 1/4 the machining.  My part was much stronger and safer, but, kids racing motorcycles didn't care, they bought the cheap part.  After,  I was married but, still working a night job, and running the shop days we changed our course and stopped hiring help.  Now that I have retired from outside consulting, I now (after 57 years in business) just do custom design and machining that she and I can do alone or with some help from my brother.  I am still to busy as I do not have the CandCNC controller I purchased from you two years ago up and running on the Sherline mill.  I am side tracked on a NOS 22" NC Lathe I am playing with trying to !
get it running.  Thanks for your time and comments.  Remember, to only keep up the hard grind as long as you enjoy what you are doing.
                                                                          GOD'S BLESSINGS
                                                                                  Bill (& Shirley the better half) Thomas

                 May you all enjoy a Merry Christmas and a Happy New year!!!!!!
                                                                                   

On Thu, 16 Dec 2010 23:17:42 -0000, timgoldstein wrote

>  
>
> --- In CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO@yahoogroups.com, "William Thomas" <wthomas@...> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Tim and All:
> >      THANKS FOR THE IMPUT OF THE CAD EXPERIMENT
> >     Tim, why don't you use a set of custom soft jaws and machine the nuts out of rectangle bars?  This would eliminate the scrap from round to rectangle and half your milling with the live tools.  Just a little harder on the start of cutoff.
> > Note:  I recently did this to taper turn some octagon gun barrels and it works!!!
> >                                                                                       GOD'S BLESSINGS
> >
> >                                                                                                   Bill Thomas
>
> Bill,
>
> No disagreement that there are many ways to skin a cat and when it is all done and said you have a skinned cat.
>
> One of the big things I had to learn when moving from a hobbyist to a commercial manufacturer is what to worry about changed. As other have mentioned, the scrap is nothing in the overall scheme of things. But labor is expensive. Changing from the collect chuck we normally run with to a standard chuck takes about 20 minutes. That is 20 minutes of lost productivity and labor cost. Changing back is another 20 minutes. Again, another lost in productivity and increase in cost. Time is money and scrap is cheap.
>
> Let me give an example. I just bought $350 in round steel that will become non-round Tuff Nuts with live tooling in the lathe. That $350 in stock will become about $12,000 at retail in products. I know seems outrageous, but we also sell wholesale to dealers, have to pay for labor to machine, debur, tumble, black oxide, and package in addition to the cost of the machine, the electricity, coolant, tools, machine service, etc, etc. So the material cost is only a fraction. If I could save 50% in material by changing to square stock I save $175. 50% is unrealistic. Maybe now everyone can see when they are looking in the wrong direction as the square solutions only have $175 improvement and then only if they cost the exact same to implement. They don't. They are all more expensive processes to try and save $175. Remember the old adage, Penney wise and pound foolish. Fits here.
>
> Bottom line hobbyist or commercial is you have to look at the resources you have and what you need to accomplish. Then you come up with the best way based on your skills and resources to accomplish the task needed. For every situation and every person the final approach can be vastly different. I am simply relating what is working for me to illustrate how we approach making this type of part in a commercial (meaning profit driven) setting. Live tooling in a lathe is a very rare approach. It is growing, but heck it cost almost $30,000 added to the cost of an already expensive machine. The point is, this is how I chose to use it and I am VERY satisfied with the ROI I am getting from this investment using the technique I am using. Based on almost 6 years of real world use of this this very rare system, I am sharing what I learned at a very high cost.
>
> I have no desire to debate and am not asking anyone that has not actually bought, setup, programmed or run one of these tools what I should do. I am just trying to help hobbyist understand some industrial approaches. If you want to be a hobbyist worry about scrap. If you want to be a profitable business owner, you figure out what to worry about and the in the USA labor is the big nut to crack.
>
> Funny thing is I was talking to another VERY experienced commercial business owner this morning about CCED. His comment is, when you share the techniques and methods that we use profitably for years the hobby guys just want to argue about it. So he walked away and we are all the poorer for it. I learned a lot from him when he was here. I am understanding his position more and more.
>
> Tim Goldstein
> A2Z Corp
> A2Z CNC division
> 3955 S Mariposa St
> Englewood CO 80110
> 720 833-9300
> Toll Free 877 754-7465
>
> www.A2ZCorp.us/store
> USA made accessories for desktop mills & lathes.
> Specialized tools for the jewelry industry.
>
>

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