CAD CAM EDM DRO - Yahoo Group Archive

RE: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] Re: Xylotex Pwr Sup replacement

Posted by Andy Wander
on 2011-11-14 06:15:09 UTC
A regulator is not necessary. A bridge rectifier, and a properly-sized filter cap(not too large OR too small) are all that's needed, in addition the transformer.


Andy Wander


-----Original Message-----
From: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Danny Miller
Sent: Monday, November 14, 2011 2:48 AM
To: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] Re: Xylotex Pwr Sup replacement

It's hardly a complete system though. The bridge rectifier is no sweat,
but you'll need some large, low ESR- and quite likely a large regulator
and heatsink.

With variations due to line voltage, output loading bringing down the
voltage, and the high ripple of a 60Hz rectification, there will need to
be a large max difference between Vin and Vout to guarantee that the reg
will have enough voltage during the lowest-case input voltage. So, you
may have 10v or more even on a 24v circuit, which means a lot of
regulator heat, which makes for a large heatsinking requirement and
increases risk of failure.

But these components are quite expensive and a 24v switching power
supply's only in the $20 range.

Danny

On 11/13/2011 11:07 PM, Dave Halliday wrote:
> Absolutely agree with you but the "feel" that I picked up on Chuck's
> original post was that he wanted something fast and also cheap and was not
> dis-inclined to roll his own.
>
> Switchers are the way to go if you can get them but for cheap brute force, a
> microwave oven xformer is right in the sweet spot.
>
> Dave
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO@yahoogroups.com
>> [mailto:CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Danny Miller
>> Sent: Sunday, November 13, 2011 2:58 PM
>> To: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO@yahoogroups.com
>> Subject: Re: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] Re: Xylotex Pwr Sup replacement
>>
>> I don't recommend this at all. Line-freq transformers and
>> rectifiers/caps are just absurdly bad for CNC use.
>> I'm not saying it won't work. But the voltage is poorly
>> regulated and
>> it'll take a large, unnecessary amount of $ to even try to get the
>> regulation and safety features "proper". 60Hz requires very large
>> filter caps, variations in line voltage cause variations in
>> the output,
>> and it draws very dirty power on the input with a leading
>> current. The
>> industry dropped line-freq transformers like 10 years ago for
>> this and
>> many other reasons.
>>
>> It's an unjustifiable risk, considering what overvoltage will do to a
>> driver.
>>
>> There's a 48v 7.3A power supply all over eBay for<$40, and they're
>> GREAT. Geckodrive recommends a guideline that the supply current be
>> rated for 0.6x the sum of the phase currents; this could do
>> 4x 3A NEMA23's.
>>
>> If you require MORE current, you can go totally over-the-top
>> with a Sun
>> rack supply:
>> Sun Sunfire V480 Server 300-1490 Hot swap Power supply 48v 24.5A
>> Sun V880 AC Power Supply P/N 300-1353 48v 15.6A
>>
>> Either one of those can be had for under $40 on eBay. Yup, 1176W of
>> top-quality regulated 48v for $33.
>>
>> Danny
>>
>> On 11/13/2011 4:35 PM, Dave Halliday wrote:
>>> I have mentioned a few times before but a microwave oven
>> has an excellent
>>> transformer for this purpose.
>>>
>>> #1) - do not play with it (plug it in) while the high
>> voltage winding is
>>> still in place. The voltages and currents developed can be
>> instantly lethal.
>>> #2) - because the high voltage winding is so high (around
>> 2,500 volts), the
>>> primary and the secondary windings are separate. Most
>> transformers have
>>> these wound on top of each other. This allows you to
>> remove the high
>>> voltage winding with a hammer and cold chisel. There will also be a
>>> filament winding -- two or three turns of thick wire; this
>> can just be
>>> unwound.
>>>
>>> #3) - wind ten turns of insulated wire around where the
>> high voltage winding
>>> used to be, power it up and measure the resultant voltage
>> on your new
>>> secondary. Divide by ten and this will be your turns/volt.
>>>
>>> You can then figure out from there how many turns are needed.
>>>
>>> The advantage of these is that dead microwave ovens are free and the
>>> transformer is good for 500-800 watts continuous power.
>> Excellent for
>>> projects like this.
>>>
>>> Dave
>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO@yahoogroups.com
>>>> [mailto:CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
>> turbulatordude
>>>> Sent: Sunday, November 13, 2011 9:08 AM
>>>> To: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO@yahoogroups.com
>>>> Subject: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] Re: Xylotex Pwr Sup replacement
>>>>
>>>> you really need to keep the voltage lower.
>>>> remember that the decel of a drive will spike the power
>>>> supply. fast decel times can make the voltage jump.
>>>>
>>>> if you can put your hands on a computer battery back-up, you
>>>> can get some high amps from the transformer.
>>>>
>>>> also, a car charger will have a large transformer.
>>>>
>>>> you will still need capacitors and diodes to get DC from
>>>> these AC units.
>>>>
>>>> you can lower the amp rating of the drive temporarally while
>>>> waiting for the perfect fix.
>>>>
>>>> all electronics offers power supplies that are DC, you should
>>>> be able to get one in a few days.
>>>>
>>>> Dave
>>>>
>>>> --- In CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO@yahoogroups.com,
>> "ebiz_59"<chuckm@...> wrote:
>>>>> Murphy bit the Xylotex box on our minimill tonight. It
>>>> appears as though the 24V 6A power supply gave up the ghost -
>>>> just when we were FINALLY making our first part for our FTC robot.
>>>>> So I need some ideas for replacing this power supply
>>>> quickly. I think I saw a 30V power supply on an HP printer
>>>> the other day, but I'm thinking it was only a couple amps.
>>>> And I think I might have a 15-20V 4ish amp laptop supply
>> lying around.
>>>>> Any other thots? And what are the odds that the Xylotex
>>>> drives are OK if this power supply board is only putting out
>>>> like 1.5V? Should I be looking for another set of stepper
>>>> drivers too?
>>>>> Ugh! Chuck
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> Addresses:
>>>> FAQ: http://www.ktmarketing.com/faq.html
>>>> FILES: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO/files/
>>>> Post Messages: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO@yahoogroups.com
>>>>
>>>> Subscribe: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>>>> Unsubscribe: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>>>> List owner: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO-owner@yahoogroups.com,
>>>> wanliker@..., timg@...
>>>> Moderator: pentam@... indigo_red@...
>>>> davemucha@... [Moderators]
>>>> URL to this group: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO
>>>>
>>>> OFF Topic POSTS: General Machining
>>>> If you wish to post on unlimited OT subjects goto:
>>>> aol://5863:126/rec.crafts.metalworking or go thru Google.com
>>>> to reach it if you have trouble.
>>>> http://www.metalworking.com/news_servers.html
>>>>
>>>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/jobshophomeshop I consider
>>>> this to be a sister site to the CCED group, as many of the
>>>> same members are there, for OT subjects, that are not allowed
>>>> on the CCED list.
>>>>
>>>> NOTICE: ALL POSTINGS TO THIS GROUP BECOME PUBLIC DOMAIN BY
>>>> POSTING THEM. DON'T POST IF YOU CAN NOT ACCEPT THIS.....NO
>>>> EXCEPTIONS........
>>>> bill
>>>> List Mom
>>>> List Owner
>>>>
>>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------
>>>
>>> Addresses:
>>> FAQ: http://www.ktmarketing.com/faq.html
>>> FILES: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO/files/
>>> Post Messages: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO@yahoogroups.com
>>>
>>> Subscribe: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>>> Unsubscribe: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>>> List owner: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO-owner@yahoogroups.com,
>> wanliker@..., timg@...
>>> Moderator: pentam@... indigo_red@...
>> davemucha@... [Moderators]
>>> URL to this group: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO
>>>
>>> OFF Topic POSTS: General Machining
>>> If you wish to post on unlimited OT subjects goto:
>> aol://5863:126/rec.crafts.metalworking or go thru Google.com
>> to reach it if you have trouble.
>>> http://www.metalworking.com/news_servers.html
>>>
>>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/jobshophomeshop I consider
>> this to be a sister site to the CCED group, as many of the
>> same members are there, for OT subjects, that are not allowed
>> on the CCED list.
>>> NOTICE: ALL POSTINGS TO THIS GROUP BECOME PUBLIC DOMAIN BY
>> POSTING THEM. DON'T POST IF YOU CAN NOT ACCEPT THIS.....NO
>> EXCEPTIONS........
>>> bill
>>> List Mom
>>> List Owner
>>>
>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------
>>
>> Addresses:
>> FAQ: http://www.ktmarketing.com/faq.html
>> FILES: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO/files/
>> Post Messages: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO@yahoogroups.com
>>
>> Subscribe: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>> Unsubscribe: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>> List owner: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO-owner@yahoogroups.com,
>> wanliker@..., timg@...
>> Moderator: pentam@... indigo_red@...
>> davemucha@... [Moderators]
>> URL to this group: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO
>>
>> OFF Topic POSTS: General Machining
>> If you wish to post on unlimited OT subjects goto:
>> aol://5863:126/rec.crafts.metalworking or go thru Google.com
>> to reach it if you have trouble.
>> http://www.metalworking.com/news_servers.html
>>
>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/jobshophomeshop I consider
>> this to be a sister site to the CCED group, as many of the
>> same members are there, for OT subjects, that are not allowed
>> on the CCED list.
>>
>> NOTICE: ALL POSTINGS TO THIS GROUP BECOME PUBLIC DOMAIN BY
>> POSTING THEM. DON'T POST IF YOU CAN NOT ACCEPT THIS.....NO
>> EXCEPTIONS........
>> bill
>> List Mom
>> List Owner
>>
>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Addresses:
> FAQ: http://www.ktmarketing.com/faq.html
> FILES: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO/files/
> Post Messages: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO@yahoogroups.com
>
> Subscribe: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> Unsubscribe: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> List owner: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO-owner@yahoogroups.com, wanliker@..., timg@...
> Moderator: pentam@... indigo_red@... davemucha@... [Moderators]
> URL to this group: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO
>
> OFF Topic POSTS: General Machining
> If you wish to post on unlimited OT subjects goto: aol://5863:126/rec.crafts.metalworking or go thru Google.com to reach it if you have trouble.
> http://www.metalworking.com/news_servers.html
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/jobshophomeshop I consider this to be a sister site to the CCED group, as many of the same members are there, for OT subjects, that are not allowed on the CCED list.
>
> NOTICE: ALL POSTINGS TO THIS GROUP BECOME PUBLIC DOMAIN BY POSTING THEM. DON'T POST IF YOU CAN NOT ACCEPT THIS.....NO EXCEPTIONS........
> bill
> List Mom
> List Owner
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>



------------------------------------

Addresses:
FAQ: http://www.ktmarketing.com/faq.html
FILES: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO/files/
Post Messages: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO@yahoogroups.com

Subscribe: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Unsubscribe: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
List owner: CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO-owner@yahoogroups.com, wanliker@..., timg@...
Moderator: pentam@... indigo_red@... davemucha@... [Moderators]
URL to this group: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO

OFF Topic POSTS: General Machining
If you wish to post on unlimited OT subjects goto: aol://5863:126/rec.crafts.metalworking or go thru Google.com to reach it if you have trouble.
http://www.metalworking.com/news_servers.html

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/jobshophomeshop I consider this to be a sister site to the CCED group, as many of the same members are there, for OT subjects, that are not allowed on the CCED list.

NOTICE: ALL POSTINGS TO THIS GROUP BECOME PUBLIC DOMAIN BY POSTING THEM. DON'T POST IF YOU CAN NOT ACCEPT THIS.....NO EXCEPTIONS........
bill
List Mom
List Owner

Yahoo! Groups Links

Discussion Thread

ebiz_59 2011-11-12 23:02:30 UTC Xylotex Pwr Sup replacement Danny Miller 2011-11-12 23:18:51 UTC Re: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] Xylotex Pwr Sup replacement Michael Fagan 2011-11-13 06:52:07 UTC Re: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] Xylotex Pwr Sup replacement "hanermo" - CNC 6-axis Designs 2011-11-13 07:16:19 UTC Re: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] Xylotex Pwr Sup replacement Michael Fagan 2011-11-13 07:19:26 UTC Re: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] Xylotex Pwr Sup replacement turbulatordude 2011-11-13 09:08:22 UTC Re: Xylotex Pwr Sup replacement Chuck Merja 2011-11-13 10:22:59 UTC RE: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] Re: Xylotex Pwr Sup replacement Danny Miller 2011-11-13 14:11:02 UTC Re: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] Xylotex Pwr Sup replacement Dave Halliday 2011-11-13 14:36:15 UTC RE: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] Re: Xylotex Pwr Sup replacement Danny Miller 2011-11-13 14:58:32 UTC Re: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] Re: Xylotex Pwr Sup replacement turbulatordude 2011-11-13 16:01:52 UTC Re: Xylotex Pwr Sup replacement Danny Miller 2011-11-13 16:27:06 UTC Re: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] Re: Xylotex Pwr Sup replacement turbulatordude 2011-11-13 17:34:38 UTC Re: Xylotex Pwr Sup replacement turbulatordude 2011-11-13 17:38:18 UTC Re: Xylotex Pwr Sup replacement turbulatordude 2011-11-13 17:46:21 UTC Re: Xylotex Pwr Sup replacement Danny Miller 2011-11-13 18:15:45 UTC Re: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] Re: Xylotex Pwr Sup replacement Andy Wander 2011-11-13 18:37:30 UTC RE: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] Re: Xylotex Pwr Sup replacement Dave Halliday 2011-11-13 21:07:46 UTC RE: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] Re: Xylotex Pwr Sup replacement Dave Halliday 2011-11-13 21:07:47 UTC RE: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] Re: Xylotex Pwr Sup replacement Danny Miller 2011-11-13 23:48:03 UTC Re: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] Re: Xylotex Pwr Sup replacement turbulatordude 2011-11-14 01:02:04 UTC Re: Xylotex Pwr Sup replacement chuck 2011-11-14 01:10:50 UTC Re: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] Xylotex Pwr Sup replacement turbulatordude 2011-11-14 01:16:21 UTC automation direct sure step "hanermo" - CNC 6-axis Designs 2011-11-14 01:35:15 UTC Re: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] Xylotex Pwr Sup replacement Andy Wander 2011-11-14 06:15:09 UTC RE: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] Re: Xylotex Pwr Sup replacement Chuck Merja 2011-11-14 07:24:15 UTC RE: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] automation direct sure step David G. LeVine 2011-11-14 10:37:30 UTC Re: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] Xylotex Pwr Sup replacement "hanermo" - CNC 6-axis Designs 2011-11-14 11:43:34 UTC Re: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] Xylotex Pwr Sup replacement Danny Miller 2011-11-14 11:52:59 UTC Re: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] Xylotex Pwr Sup replacement turbulatordude 2011-11-14 18:04:01 UTC mini-mill and motors Danny Miller 2011-11-14 22:31:51 UTC Re: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] mini-mill and motors turbulatordude 2011-11-15 02:59:25 UTC Re: mini-mill and motors Chuck Merja 2011-11-15 22:14:44 UTC RE: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] Xylotex Pwr Sup replacement "hanermo" - CNC 6-axis Designs 2011-11-16 00:59:33 UTC Re: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] mini-mill and motors turbulatordude 2011-11-16 04:27:07 UTC Re: Xylotex Pwr Sup replacement Ron Thompson 2011-11-16 05:19:26 UTC Re: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] Xylotex Pwr Sup replacement Chuck Merja 2011-11-17 08:02:40 UTC RE: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] Gecko G540 Ron Thompson 2011-11-17 08:43:34 UTC Re: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] Gecko G540 Michael Fagan 2011-11-17 11:24:43 UTC Re: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] Gecko G540 Peter Homann 2011-11-17 12:54:52 UTC Re: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] Gecko G540 robin 2012-01-16 11:03:22 UTC Re: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] Xylotex Pwr Sup replacement