Re: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] Re: water jet

Ron:

R Rogers wrote:

>My two cents worth regarding the proposed idea: It seems that it wouldnt be gaining anything by driving a secondary cylinder/piston with hydraulic pressure. That would just be trading one for the other.
>

This is exactly what I want to achieve. Use conventional hydraulics to
drive unconventional high - pressure water.

> What it would be is a very slow single stroke water pump.
>
>
> The hydraulic pump's pressure ability and flow rate would dictate the jets efficiency.
>

Agree!

> Its likely that you are intent on using larger diameter hydraulic cylinders than the water jetting cylinder thereby mutiplying the pressure (piston area X piston area) subsequently neccessitating the need for even higher flow rates from the hydraulic pump at lower pressure than the water jet pump would normally produce.
>

I only suggest it because hydraulic pumps/cylinders are available of the
shelf from multiple sources - good for DIY guy without Pentagon budget.

> 10,000 psi ratings for hydraulic cylinders is not very common, most are rated much lower.
>

Agree, but Parker has them in a catalog.

>
>A better alternative to your design would be: Two water cylinders in parallel that work in opposite of one another to supply a constant flow to the jet and switched/valved at the nozzle.
>

Nice touch! The problem may be availability/price of a high pressure
water valve.

> Again it's going to require a very large hydraulic pump to keep up with it. Whatever horsepower is required for a waterjet pump, the equal or greater would apply to the hydraulic pumps horsepower. The transfer of one force to another in this manner is not going to magically create an increase in horsepower. In fact, loss should be expected. Seems that the money would be better spent on a water jet pump. If the 20+ horsepower and 3 phase current source is an issue, yank the motor out of any small car to propel it.
>

Or use a diesel generator. Again, the price/availability issue...

>
>Developing and storing dangerous levels of pressure/energy in a large vessel was largely the death of the steam engine on a widescale. Expensive, Inefficient and unsafe.
>

Steam is a separate issue. Once there is a puncture, it causes fast
condensation which is explosive. But tube - type boilers are quite safe.
Demise of steam was caused by big oil - there were driving along the
countryside exchanging steam engines into gas engines.
Alex

>
>Ron
>
>alex <telecom@...> wrote:
>
>Ron,
>I understand you concerns, but this is where engineering knowledge
>accumulated over last century or so should be of some help.
>Using strength of materials discipline we should be able to calculate
>cylinder so it wouldn't explode, with the safety factor of 3 and
>appropriate pressure relief devices.
>Alex
>
>
>R Rogers wrote:
>
>
>
>>alex wrote:
>>
>>Recently was a discussion re: water jet - as Dave pointed out, X-Y is
>>not a problem, the problem is a water jet.
>>In this respect why not to make a pressure cylinder,
>>
>>///Low volume for water jet operation but ample volume for an explosion. I see alot of posters dabbling with the idea of a water jet. I hope everyone realizes the dangers of dealing with such high pressures. A tiny stream of water without abrasive even at 10,000 psi is enough to cleanly take off a hand. and that could happen as easily as a hose rupturing. The pressures required for water jetting are nothing to play around with. Especially when we talk about containing them in a large vessel such as an old modified hydraulic cylinder. I'm not trying to thwart anyones enthusiasm. Just be careful and aware of the potentials of the design.
>>
>>A few weeks back I had the notion of building a CNC laser. Until I researched it and discovered how dangerous it can be. The lightbeam which is invisible could be reflected off of a workpiece and blind someone or myself permanently. No thanks. Not to mention the initial expense of a tube powerful enough to cut even thin steel. For metalcutting in a gantry type machine in the homeshop, for safety's sake we are limited to plasma or acet/oxy torch. Although, if someone achieves a homemade water jet capable of cutting steel and after 6 months they still have enough fingers to type with, I'd love to hear about it. :-)
>>
>>Ron
>>
>>instead of a high
>>pressure pump, which could supply necessary pressure of the water jet?
>>Present hydraulic cylinders can operate up to 10,000 psi, but this
>>pressure can be increased without hugh cost overruns by increasing wall
>>thickness and number of seals, number of tie rods. Then the piston can
>>be driven by several hydraulic cylinders, providing an operation
>>pressure. An orifice can be located
>>at the other end of the cylinder. This seems to be not that hard to
>>implement even at home shop. Just a thought.
>>Alex
>>
>>
>>
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>OFF Topic POSTS: General Machining
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>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/jobshophomeshop I consider this to be a sister site to the CCED group, as many of the same members are there, for OT subjects, that are not allowed on the CCED list.
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>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/jobshophomeshop I consider this to be a sister site to the CCED group, as many of the same members are there, for OT subjects, that are not allowed on the CCED list.
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