Re: [CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO] Bridgeport CNC Mill???

I would certainly recommend looking at the Mesa 7i43 - I retrofitted my
series 1 with geckos and the 7i43 & EMC in one night, and never edited a
file... The 'wizard' setup everything for me. The performance of a
hardware based solution (be it smoothstepper, ppmc, mesa) absolutely
destroys PC based generation.

More importantly, done right, the machines are a lot more useful when
something does go wrong (vs losing zero).



On Sun, Oct 2, 2011 at 4:13 AM, "hanermo" - CNC 6-axis Designs <
gcode.fi@...> wrote:

> **
>
>
> Jon .. Everything you say is correct, as usual.
>
> However, there are drawbacks to the route of your hw and EMC2.
>
> He would go from a single source of very expensive parts (the original
> Anilam stuff, which is what I referred to) to a single source of hw, the
> pico systems stuff, that ONLY works on EMC2.
> Absolutely no criticism implied - your know-how is without a doubt, and
> the hw apparently performs quite well.
> Yet, experience has shown that single-sourcing anything is problematic
> in the medium to long term.
>
> However..
> EMC is limited in terms of hw speed, unless you go into the expensive
> stuff, just as you said.
> The mentioned servo loop update time, 20 khz max, is low for high
> resolution stuff.
> The high end stuff is not well documented, and making any changes into
> the screen stuff is hard, practically impossible, unilke with mach3
> screen designer.
> EMC installed base for higher end stuff is very, very low.
> Plugins are few and far between.
> Apparently the MESA stuff, some is implemented and some is not. Some is
> very expensive.
> Similar with Mach3 and MESA or Galil stuff.
>
> The OP woudl not need this - for a basic 3D mill, in all likelyhood,
> nevertheless it is there.
>
> As an example, I am using 100-200 kHz hw update rate and will be using 1
> Mh to 2 Mhz, in the near future.
> On a lathe, with a Centipede, and mach3.
>
> A user can be up and running very easily and quite cheaply with mach3,
> with about 50.000 commercial customers, and perhaps 2-3 times more hobby
> users, and a vast, responsive, growing community of enthusiastic
> supporters.
>
> If I myself needed a basic, cheap, servo 3D milling machine, I would
> probably use your servo controllers - despite the fact that I have very
> machiliar with mach3, for 8 years, and feel it is excellent for what it
> does.
> The biggest drawback on mach3 is it�s hidden, dependency mechanism for
> all advanced higher end stuff.
> Now, if money is allowed, very reliable brushless servos etc. exist for
> either environment, with any resolution, speed and power you care to pay
> for.
>
> So, a bit like cisco routers, you can do anything from a vast list, with
> mach3 or EMC2 but you definitely cant do all of them at once. And nowing
> what you can and cannot do is (in truth) impossible.
> Nevertheless, for more advanced stuff, similar difficulties exist with
> emc3.
>
> The biggest advantage of EMC2 is the non-dependency structure, where
> practically nothing depends on anything else.
> So most products will work with most products, so buying advanced x wont
> cripple anything else.
> This becomes very important when the machines or the parts get expensive.
>
> The biggest drawback in EMC2 is lack of an easy erector set cookie
> cutter customiser, a.la. screen designer in mach3.
>
> No-one who makes money with their machine (this was not the goal of the
> Original Poster) minds buying a set of x, say 3 servo drivers, at 1000$
> each, when this raises machine productivity, and results in paying for
> them in a few days.
> However, when such products then wont work with (real random examples)
> dual-gantries, homing, threading, dual home switches, rear tool post,
> dwell, torch height control, cutter radius compensation etc etc everyone
> minds very much.
> The problem is not one of reliability or functionality - it is that you
> cannot know, in advance.
> Only Very experienced people will even suspect that these problems exist.
>
> Having a basic cnc milling machine is typically about 2-3000$ in parts,
> when all is said and done.
> Electronics, pc, cables, bits and bobs.
> In this, 200-400$ here or there is immaterial.
> Cutting corners is sometimes possible, but almost never a good idea.
> Examples of this are old steppers motors, old laptops, no
> guides/protectors for cables, no limits, poor wiring practices, old
> electronics, and so on.
>
> Some of us who have been doing this a lot can do so safely with good
> success.
> We are also able to diagnose the problem to the correct cause, and
> mostly have extra drivers, steppers, servos, psus, bobs etc lying around.
>
> It is never the best, easiest, cheapest recommendable solution for a new
> person just starting out, in my opinion.
> If someones wants to learn to assemble machine from bits of stuff, this
> is the correct route.
> It is slow, frustrating, hard, expensive and replete with hard knocks
> and (semi) expensive errors.
>
> The best thing I did was first build a 7x lathe, twice, from cheap
> components. Best because I learned what not to do, cheaply (a few
> hundreds of EUR), quickly.
> The second best (absolutely succesful choice, btw) was buy an industrial
> tool post for it, from the beginning, and the same tools, posts and bits
> are still in use on my next, industrial, 1 micron, 12x cnc lathe.
>
> PS-
> I am not saying EMC2 is weak. not at all, on the contrary.
> I have been a long time linux user, running mission critical production
> on servers I own and manage, for about 10 years (14.000 simultaneous
> users, for 140 major companies, worldwide, at once).
> I find it relatively easy (complex and slow, but not hard), and very
> reliable. I also find it quiet expensive to get there (but much cheaper
> than the alternatives).
>
> The point is, mach3 is much easier, simpler and faster to get up and
> running for a new guy.
> Either one will work just as well for milling in 3D.
> Both are very reliable.
> Both are very powerful.
> Complex powerful advanced stuff on either is hard and expensive.
> 3D 3-axis cnc milling is easy, simple and cheap.
>
> There- in 6 sentences !
>
> > "hanermo" - CNC 6-axis Designs wrote:
> > > Mach3 is maybe the nr1 most stable Win xp app of all time.
> > > I have some idea, as I used to be the tach mgr, and repaired maybe 3000
> > > pc�s with my own hands, and helped assemble (oversee) over 10k builds,
> > > for which I bought the kit from all over the world.
> > >
> > > I would recommedn mach3 as a cnc controller.
> > > Forget the anilam.
> > > Rock solid, cheap, reliable.
> > >
> > > The problem you have is many-fold.
> > > Your servos are likely good - but they are probably not easy to get
> > > working with mach3.
> > >
> > Well, EMC2 is also rock solid. I've been using EMC since 1998, and EMC2
> > since it
> > came out. I have NEVER had a crash, lockup or abnormal behavior that
> > could be traced
> > to the software since 1999 or so. I use it on my production servo
> > Bridgeport to make
> > some of my EMC-related products.
> > > The problem is probably that your servos use either velocity, +/-10V
> > > analog to control them, or something like that that.
> > > They may also use resolvers rather than encoders.
> > > Nothing wrong with it, works well, it�s just that the parts are very
> > > expensive.
> > > Think 500-1000$ per axis.
> > >
> > No, not at all necessary. My PPMC interface starts at $780 for a 4-axis
> > system, and includes
> > essentially everything to interface the entire machine, assuming the
> > servo amps are
> > good, and the encoders provide digital output, as opposed to analog.
> > That breaks down
> > to $260/axis, assuming you only want 3 axes.
> >
> > If your amps are shot, then a better choice is my PWM system, a 3-axis
> > setup is
> > $250 for the 4-axis controller and $125 per axis for the servo amps.
> > That is
> > $625 or $208/axis.
> > > Hobby servos use almost excusively step and dir to control them, and so
> > > do many industrial ones.
> > > Cheap, easy, reliable.
> > >
> > >
> > And, every time you E-stop, you have to re-home the machine. With
> > either of my systems,
> > you can go to E-stop any time, such as when changing tools, and never
> > lose the axis
> > alignment.
> >
> > Jon
> >
> > __._,
>
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>
>
>

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